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Its right there, in the guides.......
It's a "guide" for the quest. Not to play Orks.
General strategy: The Adventure Party.
Equip the Warboss well and he is a monster. Late game multiple Warbosses hold the frontline while the Pain Boy and Weird Boy support from the back alongside Deffkoptas and Dakkajets for scouting, area control, and taking out flying units.
The first Warboss should hit the board around turn 25. In the meantime, Explore the map with your boys, they are powerful units but you need to keep them together. Very few things can stand up them as a group.
I try to get a research bonus on my starting city. Orks are surprisingly reliant on research. Other than that I like an influence bonus or maybe food or power.
A 3 spot is best, but 2 will do if the bonuses are juicy enough. It just means aquiring a tile first. The following order may be sooner or slower pending on your starting location, but the order is the same.
T1: Build: Fink Tank. Research: Kommando Kamp
T5: Build: Acquire Tile
T6: Research: Kult of Speed
T7: Build: Kommando Kamp
T8: Research: Mek Bitz Yard
T12: Research: Weird Boy
T13: Build: *Utility*, Train:Warboss
(Get what you lack. Need food? Orkoid Fungus. Etc. Maybe aquire a new tile with an outpost for the bonus. If you can't think of anything, get another Fink Tank.)
T15: Build: Cult of Speed, Research: Deffkoptas
T19: Train: Weird Boy
(Warboss is now on the field. Try to attack with him as much as possible to farm Influence. You can also have him use his weak ranged attack and have the boyz finish a target off just to get more influence.)
T20: Research: Pain Boy
T21: Build:*Utility*, Train: Deffkoptas
From here on out, just train the Pain Boy and go on an adventure. Do what you think is best. I like building out the city and getting 2-3 Kult of Speed to be able to spam Deffkoptas (2 or 4 will do) or eventual Dakkajet reinforcements.
Get a Battlewagon to drive around in style while you're at it.
Dakkajets are incredible and a lot of your research will go toward making them even better. They shore up the one weakness your warbosses have, air units.
The research order usually stays the same and goes something like:
Bigga Choppers, Slum Town
Extra Infantry Armor, Battle Wagon
Finking Rooms, Bigga Boltz
Dakkajet, Extra Vehicle Armor
Dakkajet Suppa Shoota, Red Paint Job
Flyboss, ???
Grot Riggers, ???
(Honestly after Flyboss older tech might take priority, but the passive healing from Grot is nice quality of life.)
All that's left to talk about is hero equipment.
This will be expensive but first priority is the Warboss:
1. Dusk Blade (Heal on attack)
2. Adamantine Weave Vest
3. Concealed Weapon System
4. Powered Gauntlet
5. Mourning Blade of Lazarek
6. Axe of Blind Fury
Properly equipped a Warboss can solo a city and lose no hp for the trouble.
Properly supported he can do it while an army is trying to stop him from doing so.
It's pretty fun.
Pain Boy and Weird Boy equipment:
1. Zoathide Jerkin
2. Endurance Implant
3. Armaplas Bracers
4. Adamantine Weave Vest
These have MUCH lower priority. Arguably ranking below equipping Warbosses 2 and 3.
But it really sucks to lose these units so either be extremely careful with them or get them some equipment to help them survive.
Always upgrade Warboss for dmg and health.
Always upgrade Painboy for healing and cyborg
Always upgrade Weird for research and frazzle, except when you can get Teleport.
That's about it I guess. Oh, and remember that Pain Boy can heal the Deffkoptas and they have a lot of health and mobility so they can take risks and just fly back for healing. Deffkopta is gonna be doing a lot of stuff that your ground units can't be bothered with, like claiming outposts or triggering artifacts. Your hero force has more important work to do.
I usually have only a couple of units. Less than 5-10.
3-6 heros. 2-4 Deffkopta. 1 Battlewagon.
Once Dakkajet spam begins all bets are off.
Have fun.
If all goes well, at that point you will likely be close to unlocking meganobz and you can transition into building a 2nd city while setting up to pump out meganobz, your mid and somewhate late game infantry unit that completely dumps on almost every other ground unit in the game. In my experience, if the early game goes well you will have handily stomped any nearby enemy armies and be too far ahead to lose.
In my experience, Orks just can't fast expand very well and suffer from having to juggle too many resources. Orks benefit the most when smacking things and killing them. Your units get stronger and you even get resources for doing it. I notice some people copying the AI, I don't recommend that. They get massive loyalty boosts which allows them to do some pretty crazy stuff like mass expanding, which players just can't viably do.
The Orks are my go to faction as well, great write-up on this, fantastic job!
You're doing it wrong. First city expansion is a net positive on all production baseline. It's only when first city goes over pop 14 that you start having issues. At which point you should be able to balance loyalty and your second city should be focused on generating resources you need. The only time resource becomes an issue is Dakkajet transfer, when you might not have the energy to keep up with both cost and upkeep.
Warboss is not a substitute tank late game. His durability is too low. He starts as a tank with high damage to more of a late game durable assassin. You should replace the frontline with Battlewagons when you get them, if vehicle, or a mix of Killa Kanz and Meganobz if Infantry. Battlewagons will eventually shift to Dakkajets, and Meganobz will become Gorkanauts.
You should be getting a Weirdboy first. Frazzle is strong against everything except Kastellans at range 2. By level 5, you should be Research 3 and Frazzle 2. This hits you up to 12 tech per turn (the equivalent of 2 Finking Roomz). Yes, Warboss is better from a raw damage perspective, but it's just not quite as valuable as the boost provided by Weirdboy, overall.
Your build order is solid, I would suggest switching Weirdboy and Mek Bitz Yard around. Having the Weirdboy out asap allows you to level it on all the neutrals surrounding you, allowing you to get that juicy tech up. It's arguably the best value for resource early game.
Your thought process of streamlining to Dakkajet is also very solid. Ork vehicles in early game are weaker than they should be (and for some reason, Killa Kanz is in the Pile of Guns infantry building. Not that I'm complaining, I prefer infantry.)
Slum Town isn't necessary by this stage, unless you're starting with three unusable tiles. (Sea tiles, or edge of map tiles, for example.) Scrap Shedz allows you to increase building advantage by halving the time on most buildings.
Bigga Choppers is also considered inefficient, as it only affects Warboss, Boyz and Painboy. Painboy shouldn't be in melee, and your Boyz will probably be dead soon. There are more efficient choices.
Extra Infantry Armour isn't valueable for the same reason. It's +1 to all infantry. And that wont stop your hero cadre from being squishy as hell. There is a much better option (Boss Speakers for city growth) in the same tier. Everything else is fine, but your match will probably be close to tipping point by T8. Going further to T10 plays to your opponents, as the Squiggoth is fun but not as good as others in the same category.
Couple of points I want to make here. You undervalue making your Weirdboy a resource glut. With items, Weirdboy will produce 18 tech and 8 influence per turn. It will happily pay for it's own cost in 20 turns per item (slightly more for the tech). Then you just have him sit at the back and direct forces, throwing a Frazzle every now and again. Mainly just for getting your lads into the fight.
Concealed Weapon System is more valueable than Adamantine Weave. This is because it adds additional attack. Additional attack will increase damage done, which will increase healing. Overall, it's a more efficient item for it's cost. It's also because of the HP benefits, that Zoat Hide Jerkin is actually more valueable than Adamantine Weave too.
I'd rate Adamantine Vest higher than Powered Gauntlet, though. Partly because I'm lazy and don't want a button I'd forget about, but I also think Warboss has plenty of damage baseline and doesn't need the 50% steroid every few turns instead of a defensive boost. That's personal preference, though.
Yes. Make sure to get the ultimate at level 6 to get a 50% influence boost to all units in a 5 tile radius when they attack.
No. Especially in your build, where you are going vehicles, you may find more value in running the discount to upkeep. This is because vehicles will eventually be a big energy drain, so it's good to cut that by 25% with rank 1 discount. Moreover, your first item will be Duskblade. Warboss going first means most if not all of the damage done will be healed. There shouldn't be many points that you need Painboy to Heal outside of very early game. And your influence buildup shouldn't take that long to get you the items. Potential, if you play cautiously enough, to run 3 Cybork Implants, 2 Discount.
Yes, if you mean research to 3 and Frazzle to 2. Though a baseline level 1 Weirdboy will want Frazzle so it can boost to level 2 ASAP.
Last thing I want to point out is that it feels like you are also undervaluing Orkoid Fungus. Yes, the Painboy heal is decent enough to stop you needing to use it much (if at all) but it's also a handy tool that allows you to go weirder and wonderful builds, if you play with a little more finesse and caution. Only units in the Ork roster it doesn't affect is Dakkajet (guaranteed) and maybe Deffkoptaz (but it's possible it might? I might be confusing it with another unit though) and can be used to boost your units back into combat much faster.
I'm generally pretty sold on warboss, but I'll give that a try. I do like the idea of getting wierdboy earlier to take advance of the easy level ups and get resources/Teleport far sooner.
Powered Gauntlet is a passive 25% bonus. You might be thinking of Lightning Gauntlet.
I agree with the sentiment, though. Who needs more buttons to push? xD
The 'Extra Bitz' upgrade only works for infantry, not vehicles, so the only units he affects would be the Weirdboy and Big Mek. I don't feel the 1.5Energy drain on the Weirdboy is worth the effort. If it affected the Dakkajets, though? Heck yeah.
Orkoid Fungus is great. I just value getting levels on my heroes early. Painboy's cybernetics is a good buff and the instant healing is also effectively a damage buff by restoring models mid combat.
I'm gonna start a game right now to try these things, though.
What are your thoughts on city building? I tend to neglect them at a certain point.
80-100 is actually late game though, for most if not all factions. So I think you have a good understanding.
Also yes, got the gauntlets confused. Sorry about that.
Under Gladius ruleset, Skimmers are also counted as infantry. Even though they gain vehicle bonuses. After all, you can heal them with Painboy, right? Painboy should only be able to heal infantry. I tested this in an old save, and it affected Deffkoptas (The reason I made the point). Yes, Dakkajets arn't affected, unfortunately. The poorly worded point I was trying to make, was discouting the units prior to that point has a long term ripple effect (Your Weirdboy, Big Mek, Warboss and Deffkoptas will all have reduced upkeep) and this will make the transition to Dakkajet easier to manage/handle with a higher amount of pooled resource.
It's possible this has changed in a more recent patch though. I'll run a game from scratch soon to test if you don't beat me to it.
I should probably post less at late times in the evening. Seems I didn't get my intended point across. Which isn't that Orkoid Fungus is instead of heroes. Only that Painboy can be delayed and doesn't necessarily require it's heal for max efficiency if you can abuse Fungus enough. Though admittedly it's personal preference. I love using Painboys, as you can give them the +8 Inf/+6 tech items that you'd share to Weirdboys too and they are versatile at both buffing, healing, and discounting units.
My personal preference is to take a small risk and run Weirdboy into Painboy, and get the Warboss last (as he can be leveled easiest and doesn't require as many levels to absolutely wreck face). But it is a risk as, in this particular case, you'd be finding Kastellan neutrals hard to deal with until the Warboss gets out. So I guess it's about adapting to the situation.
Bearing in mind, I prefer running Pile of Gunz over Kult ov Speed. This means that I can get away with just having one Infantry production building in my second city, focusing the rest on resource gen, and the first city being a hybrid production/resource gen. This is important as I can use the second city to focus on older units (Killa Kanz, Tankbustaz) and city one, with it's multiple Pile Of Gunz, can focus on the more elite units (Meganobz, maybe even Gorkanaut if I tech fast enough.) I can eventually bring city two to the same level as city 1, with a Kommando Kamp and multiple Pile of Gunz, but that can be delayed in favour of just building a resource glut.
Then, after war has been raging for a while and I feel I am closer to my opponent's base, I'll use my furthest forward Meks to create a third city and just throw as many production buildings into it as possible, starting with Scrap Sheds(This will be roughly around turn 60, unless I find his home city sooner). Only thing you need to balance on the third is loyalty. It's ok if it produces negative resource to begin with - Your second city (and probably first city too) should be easily able to bear the strain. Make sure you have a decent amount of resource in the bank, and it'll be swimming. And you'll have a forward base to spam out Tankbustaz, Killa Kanz and Meganobz (and making sure to get a Mek Bitz Shop so I can get Mek Gunz out too).
I imagine this differs slightly for a vehicle based build. This is because you're not going to be landlocked with infantry, instead Dakkajets and Deffkoptas will give you flexibility over terrain. As such, putting your forward base in a place where it would be harder for any non-flyers to get to, sounds far more reasonable.
That being said, I usually have either won or lost the game by turn 100, and so going up to turn 120 is just going through the motions, or me trying desperately to scramble my way back into the game. Either that, or it's just a chillout session on a lower difficulty. After turn 80, city management becomes secondary. I can offer a couple of tips, but you probably know them:
1) Make sure to build a pop centre 2 population before max. This is mainly because of two reasons. One, it takes time to build the pop centre, so you'll probably get an additional pop before you hit the cap. And two, population growth decreases by around 40% in the last pop before cap. (e.g. 10/11). Ork cities are amazing because they grow very quickly without a need for ability steroids (Like AM or Aeldari) and so juggling pop cap should always be in the back of your mind. Wiki states that pop growth is handicapped when free housing is less than 5, but I generally don't see any difference until the last one. More pop obviously means more buildings working at full efficiency. I forget what the negative is for missing a pop, but it's worth avoiding, just like anything below -5% loyalty.
2) The earlier your first city is, the better. This is because of the capital building that comes as part of constructing a new city. Because it's a flat resource boost across the board (quite literally everything) for one pop, it's the most efficient build in the game. By the time you get the 2nd city out, you should have teched into the Fighting Pitz to deal with Loyalty in the first city, so that should (hopefully) never be an issue. The longer you delay, the less efficient this becomes, as more pop (and therefore production and resource) in the main city will be affected by the small punch of negative loyalty that you will probably already be trying to juggle.
Hope this helps you Krump all da Gitz.
Rule of thumb seems to be 'If you can heal it, you give it discounts.'
Though, I suppose you could leverage the ore discount into more power generation.
Mhm. I found myself a bit stalled early when I tried this. I can definately see how this would be a good start, maximizing resources and discounts to surge ahead. I think the issue might be that I don't build Pile of Dakka's so the Weirdboy doesn't get the frontline units to really make his 2 range shine.
The opposite is true for the Kult of speed, the deffchopta's have good range and benefit from the warboss acting as frontline more than from wierdboy also having 2 range.
Kinda neat how the different paths change synergies.
Though, I do think the Pile of Dakka units are fantastic, (And nothing is quite as funny as teleporting Gorkonauts into the enemy base) I cannot stand having too many ground units to move around. The Deffkopta and Dakkajets are more managable for my sanity. xD
Interesting. Especially the scrapyards in the 3rd city to spam it into full production asap.
Do the 1st and 2nd city not get extra scapyards then?
I don't usually build them at all and gave it a try just now. It was pretty great to get stuff on demand a lot quicker, though I somewhat outpaced my pop and resources so I might have gone a bit overboard. xD
I'll play around with it some more.
I get the sense you have a lot of units on the field, is that right?
Orkz is made fer' two fings! Fightin', and winnin'!
True. Still makes Tau and Aeldari players love you though.
Precisely. Discounting ore and food upkeep units, means needing less production buildings to fund those units. This allows you to sneak in more Finking Rooms, Energy Generators, and other such buildings with relative ease.
The more we talk about it the more I realise it's probably just about personal preference, yeah.
The thought behind taking a 'slower' start for infantry, is because even if you can, you don't want to push with Boyz. You want to wait for a critical mass of Killa Kanz and Tankbustaz, easily achieved by turn 20-30. At which point both your Painboy and Weirdboy will probably also be level 4 (maybe even 5) so long as you play with careful aggression against the neutrals. I naturally push Warbuggies (and eventually Battlewagons) into range 1 to force the space for Weirdboy to stay at range 2. But just my aggression peeking through.
They do, but it's not as fast a priority. Your second city will be used as a second line troop trainer, and then pumped for resource. I usually wait until I've got it running 0 loyalty before putting the first Scrapyard in to accelerate the process. The first city is the awkward one. This is because you gotta balance the timing of the Scrapyard with Mek Bitz Yard and your first Grots Hut. In general, my thought is to keep pop and the second city asap, so it's always the last of the three, but before my 2nd Pile Of Gunz. This is to make sure I have all the basics in place before I start slamming into resource.
The reason I worded the third city running Scrapyard asap, is because I don't usually put any resource into it until pop 10-12. The second (and if I am really hungry for production, third) scrapyards will launch my Pile of Guns creations exceptionally fast. I usually settle with two Piles of Guns before my first Grots Huts and Loyalty building, then finish with one more Pile of Guns and two Kommando Kamps before settling down with more loyalty and slapping some resource to begin the balance. Again, just my personal preference.
It's why I don't use vehicles often. Dakkajets don't need to be spammed as they are actually really good for airborne units in game, and with upgrades will happily fight 1 to 1 against a lot of things. Helps being airborne too. But this is a bad habit to get into against higher tier difficulty AI and players. Ork units need to snowball and be bigger than the enemy army at pretty much all times, as their units don't trade too efficiently in a fair fight. But because of this, Orkz have a lot of mechanics that allow them to easily field three times the units.
Painboy as the example here, just talking about Extra Bitz. 25% means that after 4 units you get a 5th one upkeep free. 50% gives you a buy one, get one upkeep free. And 75% is buy one, get three upkeep free. Pretty scary, if you think that you now have four units for the same upkeep that most other factions will have one.
Green iz Best!