Warhammer 40,000: Gladius - Relics of War

Warhammer 40,000: Gladius - Relics of War

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Amogus 2022 年 4 月 14 日 下午 12:41
late game too many epic units.
so when you get into the late game just baneblade, squigoth, monolith etc everywhere, these are epic units suppose to come into limited quanitty, don't really feel that "limited" when everyone can just build a baneblade in 1 turn. LOL.
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正在显示第 16 - 29 条,共 29 条留言
=M$= Oroberus 2022 年 4 月 19 日 上午 11:58 
I'm honestly in on it.

I mean, it don't bothers me A LOT that their will be 5 Warbosses or 10 Tank Commanders or 15 Librarians but for the sake of immersion I would indeed prefer some sort of limitation on it.

Maybe something like dependant on their status, let's say:
1 actual leader (Chapter Master, General, Waaaghboss etc)
3 Psykers
5 lower commanders

For how extremely powerful a Waaaghboss is, having the capability of just spamming them (and especially orcs can pump them out by the dozens with their racial bonus), having no limit on them is ... problematic

Same goes for Chaos ... 10 Demon Princes in one undevided chaos army? Come on ...
最后由 =M$= Oroberus 编辑于; 2022 年 4 月 19 日 上午 11:59
Cursed Hawkins 2022 年 4 月 19 日 下午 1:08 
引用自 =M$= Oroberus
Same goes for Chaos ... 10 Demon Princes in one undevided chaos army? Come on ...
You realize that those Demon Princes are also gained via random chance from the lower tiered units?
=M$= Oroberus 2022 年 4 月 19 日 下午 3:18 
引用自 Cursed Hawkins
引用自 =M$= Oroberus
Same goes for Chaos ... 10 Demon Princes in one undevided chaos army? Come on ...
You realize that those Demon Princes are also gained via random chance from the lower tiered units?

They can either be gained through a low chance Boon Of Chaos ... or just outright build in the Cult Of Chaos ;)
tobybaconcheese 2022 年 4 月 19 日 下午 3:40 
I think there's work to be done in balancing the game particularly at the higher difficulty levels. I've been playing on the "Very Strong" difficulty and it's dominated by t10 units by turn 135 - 140. I play Aeldari and by turn 125 I can produce a Guardian, Banshee or Fire Dragon in 2 turns or a Wraithknight in 3 turns. Which would you choose? The production rate of t8 - t10 is too high so it makes it so the lower level units aren't worth the time to produce and when Orks, Imperial Guard, or Tau can produce much faster I am forced to produce the t10 units just to try and fend them off. There's no time to produce the fodder troops to protect them from being swarmed. Having said all this I typically finish 2nd out of a 6 faction game - the last faction consistently produces 10 times what I do (from the post game analysis stats) which is a bit too much for me to handle most games. If I was able to produce Guardians in 1 turn I'd do that to give me some breathing room. I think the same goes with all the factions. So I think a combination of production speed and max units per tier would fix the issue and it would be cool if they had that as a user setting in the game setup so people can select the production and max unit caps to play with. This might even fix the handicaps they introduce at each difficulty level. The devs could use the production rate and max unit caps instead which feels more realistic to me (you have a dolt running the army or a military genius who's got their logistics mastered).
Cursed Hawkins 2022 年 4 月 19 日 下午 3:43 
引用自 =M$= Oroberus
引用自 Cursed Hawkins
You realize that those Demon Princes are also gained via random chance from the lower tiered units?

They can either be gained through a low chance Boon Of Chaos ... or just outright build in the Cult Of Chaos ;)
But I can also see why there would be so many Demon Princes for an undivided army, I mean you can likely name off ten Demon Princes some of them being Primarchs.
Amogus 2022 年 4 月 20 日 上午 1:17 
引用自 Phaeron Amarkun
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Dude. It's a good game design that limit high tier unit by time production and ressource limit. All RTS game does that.. RA2 doesn't even have cap limit.
Instead of let the game balance on itself. You want to put artificially limit. What is better is for debate but I prefer I can choose the option.
but i am not arguing that using resouce and time as limit is bad, i am saying they FAILED at using resources and time as a limit, there isn't much a limit when you can produce a baneblade in a single term and have like 20 of them on the maps.
=M$= Oroberus 2022 年 4 月 20 日 上午 11:27 
引用自 Cursed Hawkins
引用自 =M$= Oroberus

They can either be gained through a low chance Boon Of Chaos ... or just outright build in the Cult Of Chaos ;)
But I can also see why there would be so many Demon Princes for an undivided army, I mean you can likely name off ten Demon Princes some of them being Primarchs.

My gripe with it is less the general possibility of several DP (giggity) being around but more with the general issue of control/hirarchie/competition within the chaos.

Sure, if given the choice to kill a bunch of Ultrasmurfs, they'll prioritize it but as soon as there's no Ultrasmurf around, they would go after each other. Same with actual Champions Of Chaos (not in the meaning of being able to receive the BOC).
For a short time frame, yeah, they'll work together but in mid or even long run? Nope, they would just massively backstab and kil leach other off, just to be the single leader.

Same with Orcs, there's no 2 Waaaghbosses in a single Waaagh. This might happen, shortly but as soon as there's a chance, they would try to assert dominance over each other.

Astra Militarum the same, Commissars, yeah, a dime a dozen but Lord Commissars? They might not try to off eahc other ASAP but they usually won't really work together, they would split the army between them and everyone goes their own route of war.

etc

Don't get me wrong, it rdoesn't really bother me THAT much, especially in terms of gameplay, it's fine, you can play with or around it but in terms of the immersion it's indeed a bit annoying, especially as the game itself is heaps of fun.

But I guess we'll never see a 40k game which is heaps of fun with a great gameplay loop and pacing that at the same time is as lore friendly and immersive as it can be *g*
Cursed Hawkins 2022 年 4 月 20 日 下午 12:44 
引用自 =M$= Oroberus
Sure, if given the choice to kill a bunch of Ultrasmurfs, they'll prioritize it but as soon as there's no Ultrasmurf around, they would go after each other. Same with actual Champions Of Chaos (not in the meaning of being able to receive the BOC).
For a short time frame, yeah, they'll work together but in mid or even long run? Nope, they would just massively backstab and kil leach other off, just to be the single leader.
You do realize that the chaos faction in Gladius is the Black Legion right? The legion that follows Warmaster Abaddon who doesn't exactly take failure or treachery lightly, who also commands thousands of Chaos Lords, Sorcerers, etc within his legion. I don't see anyone turning against him anytime soon unless they KNOW they can make a play.
=M$= Oroberus 2022 年 4 月 20 日 下午 3:08 
引用自 Cursed Hawkins
引用自 =M$= Oroberus
Sure, if given the choice to kill a bunch of Ultrasmurfs, they'll prioritize it but as soon as there's no Ultrasmurf around, they would go after each other. Same with actual Champions Of Chaos (not in the meaning of being able to receive the BOC).
For a short time frame, yeah, they'll work together but in mid or even long run? Nope, they would just massively backstab and kil leach other off, just to be the single leader.
You do realize that the chaos faction in Gladius is the Black Legion right? The legion that follows Warmaster Abaddon who doesn't exactly take failure or treachery lightly, who also commands thousands of Chaos Lords, Sorcerers, etc within his legion. I don't see anyone turning against him anytime soon unless they KNOW they can make a play.

Where is this said in the game, that the Chaos Faction actually is the Black Legion?
Insignia doesn't fit
Colorscheme is pretty much ANYTHING you want it to be
No BL-specific lore or units are presented
Neither any of the 'you met' nor 'you defeated' does mention the sub-faction

And even if this would be indeed the case, Abaddon wouldn't bet an eye upon champions or demons killing each other, as long as it leads to his personal victory. You said, they probably only make a play if they think, they can succeed with it: Yeah, exactly my point, if there's a realistical chance of climbing up the hirarchy (which, based on the POV pretty much always exists), they would go for it.

To my knowledge, Abaddon is not the Warmaster of the Black Legion but the de facto Warmaster of ALL Chaos forces, while being the Chaos Lord of the Black Legion.

Maybe there's just an issue with nomenclature:
Warmaster - "absolute overboss, just below the gods themselfs", initially Horus, followed up by Abaddon
Chaos Lord - Most powerful Champion Of Chaos and usually also general commander of CSM-Warbands/Legions/Chapters
Champion Of Chaos - individual who has dedicated his or her life to further the cause of Chaos

Therefor having more then 1 single Chaos Lord active in the game is ... finicky in terms of the lore, as long as the Warmaster is not specifically present in the game and the scope goes way beyond a single sub-faction (aka 1 order/chapter/legion) - which it doesn't in Gladius.

A nice example of said infighting would be Erebus of the Word Bearers vs Kor Phaeron of the Word Bearers

Outside of a single, coordinate large scale war/crusade, there is just no peace among Chaos forces, as long as they do not stand against a common enemy and even then, as soon as it would seem that said enemy would be weakened enough, that any allegiances are no longer needed to secure the win, most would outright use the weakened state of the others to overthrow and overtake them.


And that's not just an issue with the CSM, also goes for the SM in a degree.

Mortifactors vs Ultramarines is a pretty usual clash of Space Marines as the Mortifactors are a second founding successor of the Ultrasmurfs which have deviated in such a large degree from the Ultrasmurfs, that Papa Smurf is pretty on the edge about wiping them out for heresy (or at least was, we've entered 41.k by now and things might have changed).

Such animosities run way deeper amongst chaos forces with way less limiting factors on why they would not go for each other.
最后由 =M$= Oroberus 编辑于; 2022 年 4 月 20 日 下午 3:13
Cursed Hawkins 2022 年 4 月 20 日 下午 4:10 
引用自 =M$= Oroberus
引用自 Cursed Hawkins
You do realize that the chaos faction in Gladius is the Black Legion right? The legion that follows Warmaster Abaddon who doesn't exactly take failure or treachery lightly, who also commands thousands of Chaos Lords, Sorcerers, etc within his legion. I don't see anyone turning against him anytime soon unless they KNOW they can make a play.

Where is this said in the game, that the Chaos Faction actually is the Black Legion?
Did you never see the trailer for the Chaos faction? The first THREE LINES of the trailer alone should have clued you in!
"10,000 years we have fought, at Luna, at Terra, at Cadia, beside the false emperor, beside the warmaster, beside the despoiler"
Hell the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ armor itself is literally the Black Legion's colors! You really want to try and tell me that despite you see THAT in-game when you play as Chaos that they ARE NOT BLACK LEGION!
https://youtu.be/mRooRyTz9M0
Stardustfire 2022 年 4 月 20 日 下午 9:36 
On little Thing already unhinges that Thesis: Khorne Beserkers.....
And what have the "first 3 lines" have to do with that? all chaos marines come from the time of the great war, your way of showing that fact is like stateing that only one of the Primarchrs was made by the Imperator, instead of all.
=M$= Oroberus 2022 年 4 月 20 日 下午 11:44 
引用自 Cursed Hawkins
引用自 =M$= Oroberus

Where is this said in the game, that the Chaos Faction actually is the Black Legion?
Did you never see the trailer for the Chaos faction? The first THREE LINES of the trailer alone should have clued you in!
"10,000 years we have fought, at Luna, at Terra, at Cadia, beside the false emperor, beside the warmaster, beside the despoiler"
Hell the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ armor itself is literally the Black Legion's colors! You really want to try and tell me that despite you see THAT in-game when you play as Chaos that they ARE NOT BLACK LEGION!
https://youtu.be/mRooRyTz9M0

Okay, in terms of the armor in the trailer you are right, at least for the first picture, that's black legion but there's quite a bit more chaos forces which fought at Luna, at Terra and at Cadia.
"Beside the Warmaster, beside the Despoiler" is unclear though, it is possible that "The Warmaster" means Horus, making "the despoiler" somewhat of a destinction, that it might be the Black Legion, as they fought an his side but "the Despoiler" could also be just an addition to "The Warmaster", making it 100% unclear who is talking, as EVERY Chaos Force ever fighting in any crusade after Horusses fall would have fought besides the despoiler.
And then there is the second picture ... which clearly shows a green/golden armor scheme.

Imho it's never clearly said which of the Chaos Orders you do indeed play. There's not even a black to be chosen when starting up a game, while there f.e. indeed is Evil Sunz Red (not saying you'Re playing Evil Sunz though, just an interesting fact).

In terms of '10.000 years we have fought' you serial? 10.000, even for your bog standard CSM might be 50 years, or 500.000 years, go check on how they keep track of time between crusades if they're cought in the warp f.e. ... hint ... they don't, they can't and time within and around the warp/eye of terror/rift is not as linear and standardized as you might think.

Also, if it's the Black Legion, why exactly should this NEVER be brought up except in the trailer?

I mean, sure, if you think it' BL, go for it but honestly I don't see even closely enough evidence of schemes, units, insignia or in-game lore for it to specify which Order it actually would be.

EDIT: This goes for the other factions too btw, not told with CM or Orc Clan or AM you are actually playing, why would they specify it for the Chaos but not for the other ones?
最后由 =M$= Oroberus 编辑于; 2022 年 4 月 20 日 下午 11:48
Cursed Hawkins 2022 年 4 月 21 日 上午 7:31 
引用自 =M$= Oroberus
I mean, sure, if you think it' BL, go for it but honestly I don't see even closely enough evidence of schemes, units, insignia or in-game lore for it to specify which Order it actually would be.
It is Black Legion as their badge is also present on the shoulders of the Chaos Marines even if its more up to date with modern times, people can still know they are Black Legion because the badge still carries its iconic look.
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Black_Legion

引用自 =M$= Oroberus
making "the despoiler" somewhat of a destinction,,
No that one is specifically for Abaddon as he goes by Abaddon the Despoiler and he was the successor to Horus also making him a Warmaster.
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Abaddon

引用自 =M$= Oroberus
but there's quite a bit more chaos forces which fought at Luna,
Anyone that knows the Black Legion's history will know they were originally called the Luna Wolves which before the Horus Heresy began they changed to being called the Wolves of Horus, after the Horus Heresy they then became known as the Black Legion.
=M$= Oroberus 2022 年 4 月 21 日 上午 11:53 
引用自 Cursed Hawkins
引用自 =M$= Oroberus
I mean, sure, if you think it' BL, go for it but honestly I don't see even closely enough evidence of schemes, units, insignia or in-game lore for it to specify which Order it actually would be.
It is Black Legion as their badge is also present on the shoulders of the Chaos Marines even if its more up to date with modern times, people can still know they are Black Legion because the badge still carries its iconic look.
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Black_Legion

引用自 =M$= Oroberus
making "the despoiler" somewhat of a destinction,,
No that one is specifically for Abaddon as he goes by Abaddon the Despoiler and he was the successor to Horus also making him a Warmaster.
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Abaddon

引用自 =M$= Oroberus
but there's quite a bit more chaos forces which fought at Luna,
Anyone that knows the Black Legion's history will know they were originally called the Luna Wolves which before the Horus Heresy began they changed to being called the Wolves of Horus, after the Horus Heresy they then became known as the Black Legion.

1. I'll check later, didn't see it ingame ;)*
2. You missed the point, big woosh
3. That's right but does not refute the point of lots of chaos forces being around fighting at Terra, Luna and Cadia
4. What's about the rest of the post? Cherry-picking what to try to refute and ignoring the points you would have to say "Okay, fair enough" and therefor at least partially going for a constructive discurs instead of plain "You're wrong!"-arguements?

*EDIT: Nope ... just nope dude ... neither shoulder pad shows the BL icon.
Right shoulder shows a simplified/stylized Chaos Star in form of a ring with arrows while being completely hollow
Left shoulder shows something that's more akin of the Never Winter Nights Logo then the BL icon xD

And even in the trailer ... it's a long shot on the first picture, could be, could be any other random chaos icon including a Chaos Star

So your evidence stays in the realm of anecdotal and possible but anything but 100% clear/sure/safe
最后由 =M$= Oroberus 编辑于; 2022 年 4 月 21 日 下午 12:02
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发帖日期: 2022 年 4 月 14 日 下午 12:41
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