titan mod whennnnn

[Dumbass Deer (Not a Reindeer)]

titan and titan like units for impeiruam and orks and eldar and such, and atleast have warhound and weaver and voids shields that charge up if stationary

[Rubyeyed]

It would be really awesome to have titans but on the other hand it would also be hilarious to have a titan squeezed onto 1 tile. It would make scaling issues stand out even more.

[Dumbass Deer (Not a Reindeer)]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Rubyeyed:

It would be really awesome to have titans but on the other hand it would also be hilarious to have a titan squeezed onto 1 tile. It would make scaling issues stand out even more.

well ther can be anti titan weapons too like the baneblade varienats

[Rubyeyed]

When I said scaling I meant the size difference between all units because every unit has to fit on 1 tile, not balance.

[Alive Deadman]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Rubyeyed:

It would be really awesome to have titans but on the other hand it would also be hilarious to have a titan squeezed onto 1 tile. It would make scaling issues stand out even more.

Reminds me of the death Robot in Civ V. It's supposed to be a massive, almost kaiju like in size and power, but it still fits in a single hexagon. Gladius can have that too

[dexgattaca]

Scale is the issue. A Knight stands up to the knee joint of a Warlord titan.

[Cursed Hawkins]

Opprinnelig skrevet av dexgattaca:

Scale is the issue. A Knight stands up to the knee joint of a Warlord titan.

Not to mention balancing, how do you balance something the size of a city or even an entire cluster of tiles in the context of Gladius's movement system when we factor in every single individual titan size and every faction already in the game will need at least one titan that matches in equal size.

[Corseth]

I played around with making one but I ran into the problem that I couldn't think of a way (within the way Gladius works) to make them anything more than a "T11 unit". That is, they'd just be a Baneblade but with more cost, hp and damage, etc.

It's easy to think of ideas for Titans; it's a lot harder to think of ideas that the Gladius engine supports. Like, there's no way to make them multi-hex in size. You can have them lose weapons as HP drops, but you can't make something like subsystems targettable; it's just a straight %hp threshhold. Etc. The game engine just doesn't really support anything much more complicated than say the Tau battlesuits (with their upgrade slots). There's a FEW more tricks you can do, but not a lot more.

[Dumbass Deer (Not a Reindeer)]

you dont have to make its scale accurate, it was never meant to be to scale in a way

Opprinnelig skrevet av Corseth:

I played around with making one but I ran into the problem that I couldn't think of a way (within the way Gladius works) to make them anything more than a "T11 unit". That is, they'd just be a Baneblade but with more cost, hp and damage, etc.

It's easy to think of ideas for Titans; it's a lot harder to think of ideas that the Gladius engine supports. Like, there's no way to make them multi-hex in size. You can have them lose weapons as HP drops, but you can't make something like subsystems targettable; it's just a straight %hp threshhold. Etc. The game engine just doesn't really support anything much more complicated than say the Tau battlesuits (with their upgrade slots). There's a FEW more tricks you can do, but not a lot more.

interesting, like i said, atleast the warhound and reaver, and maybe the dire wolf will do, and parraels for other factions like gargants, and ofc anti titan tanks and such, i imagine the warhound theirs like two types, one with turbo laser and bolter, the other with a plasma and flamer, they both use there turbo and plasma weapons as a select option, while use the bolter and flamer as a direct option

[Dumbass Deer (Not a Reindeer)]

i wonder how would you do the void shields, esp recovering while standing still

[Cursed Hawkins]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Minimalist Deer:

i wonder how would you do the void shields, esp recovering while standing still

There WOULDN'T be any void shields, because there's no mechanics present for any shields on units.

[dexgattaca]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Minimalist Deer:

i wonder how would you do the void shields, esp recovering while standing still

Void shield could be represented by stacking Invulnerable Ranged Damage Reduction traits. The traits would be removed on damage and recharged via action when not moving.

[Dumbass Deer (Not a Reindeer)]

Opprinnelig skrevet av dexgattaca:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Minimalist Deer:

i wonder how would you do the void shields, esp recovering while standing still

Void shield could be represented by stacking Invulnerable Ranged Damage Reduction traits. The traits would be removed on damage and recharged via action when not moving.

intersting idea

[Jey]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Corseth:

Like, there's no way to make them multi-hex in size.

Graphically, you absolutely can. A big unit will oveflow on nearby tiles.
Mechanically, it's a bit more awkward. Instead of blocking the hexes though, you could have a radius 1 trait that deals Stomp damage to anything without the Headquarters trait.

If you absolutely definitely want to block the hexes, you could use GravityWaves from the T'au.
You should however find a way to increase melee range to 2 when trying to hit a titan. I find the area Stomp much easier ^^.

You can have them lose weapons as HP drops, but you can't make something like subsystems targettable

You could give faction actions to all factions that allow you to use them on an enemy Titan and block specific weapons.
For example "Block main weapon" which will only work if the unit has:
- Less than 80% HP and no other "block X weapon"
OR Less than 60% HP and only one "block X weapon"
etc...
This would apply a trait common to all titans, and each titan would have one specific weapon disabled.

That would be a nigthmare to write, and would be kind of a weird UX. It also causes some issues with healing (How do you handle it if the unit is healed? Should the trait like be removed? In which order? Should there be more faction actions to "unblock" weapons? x_x). But hey, can't have everything, can you?


There's also some possibilities such as giving many action points to the Titan and making each weapon or ability (e.g turning on shields) cost action points :)

[dexgattaca]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Jey:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Corseth:

Like, there's no way to make them multi-hex in size.

Graphically, you absolutely can. A big unit will oveflow on nearby tiles.
Mechanically, it's a bit more awkward. Instead of blocking the hexes though, you could have a radius 1 trait that deals Stomp damage to anything without the Headquarters trait.

If you absolutely definitely want to block the hexes, you could use GravityWaves from the T'au.
You should however find a way to increase melee range to 2 when trying to hit a titan. I find the area Stomp much easier ^^.

You can have them lose weapons as HP drops, but you can't make something like subsystems targettable

You could give faction actions to all factions that allow you to use them on an enemy Titan and block specific weapons.
For example "Block main weapon" which will only work if the unit has:
- Less than 80% HP and no other "block X weapon"
OR Less than 60% HP and only one "block X weapon"
etc...
This would apply a trait common to all titans, and each titan would have one specific weapon disabled.

That would be a nigthmare to write, and would be kind of a weird UX. It also causes some issues with healing (How do you handle it if the unit is healed? Should the trait like be removed? In which order? Should there be more faction actions to "unblock" weapons? x_x). But hey, can't have everything, can you?


There's also some possibilities such as giving many action points to the Titan and making each weapon or ability (e.g turning on shields) cost action points :)

I wish you did more modding Jey. You are quite talented with the code.

[Corseth]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Jey:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Corseth:

Like, there's no way to make them multi-hex in size.

Graphically, you absolutely can. A big unit will oveflow on nearby tiles.
Mechanically, it's a bit more awkward. Instead of blocking the hexes though, you could have a radius 1 trait that deals Stomp damage to anything without the Headquarters trait.

If you absolutely definitely want to block the hexes, you could use GravityWaves from the T'au.
You should however find a way to increase melee range to 2 when trying to hit a titan. I find the area Stomp much easier ^^.

Oh yeah definitely not talking visuals. Those are easy. But blocking tiles, and being bigger than 1 tile, are definitely different for many mechanics. I had thought of the damage option, though not the gravitywaves one, but there's some factors:

You're still really just a 1 tile unit. You can't draw LOS or range to or from the adjacent tiles the titan is "occupying". AOE or tile effects won't affect the titan unless they affect the center tile, etc. Now, we can increase Titan range and LOS by 1 over what we would say it should be, easy fix, but shooting back definitely gets weird. We can partly solve this the same way as the melee option (every single unit gets an additional, duplicate, of every ranged weapon, that has +1 range, that can only shoot at Titans) but that's gonna be so messy on UI.
You still move as a 1 tile unit (so you can fit through 1 tile wide passages). Not a huge deal, titan stomp over cliff edge or shallow water, sure. But it makes for SUPER weird visuals when you scale the model up (titan walking atop water).
The Titan blocks itself in with the gravitywaves. I haven't figured out how to let a trait bypass them (if you know let me know), so we have to give our titan flying or jetpack type movement. While functional, this is still really weird.
Oh, and you definitely still want the damage aura (and one that affects allies). Otherwise you will have clipping issues where you move the titan adjacent to units and THEN they get blocked (the gravitywaves keeps units from moving 1-cell adjacent to the titan, it does not keep the titan from moving adjacent to units, which would cause visual clipping if you've sized it up)

To make melee 'range 2' you "just" give every melee weapon an alternative version that is able to attack range 2, but only against targets with your titan trait. This gets to a later issue though - you rapidly start drowning the UI in elements only relevant to titans, but appear at all times. I actually prefer just not letting melee attack the titan aside from specific relevant titanic units like the Cerastus Knight or Heirodule(extra UI on a few units is less problematic than extra UI on all units). I admit I haven't tried mixing the melee trait with a range stat (that range is not part of rangedX attributes makes me hopeful), but you could just go for a ducttape solution of making it a ranged weapon that can't overwatch as well.

Also a funny one - no matter what you do, at least that I've found, if you move your titan onto a previously-unseen unit, it's going to bounce off like any other unit does (since I have no way that I know to apply the damage stomp DURING MOTION). If we're doing jumppack like movement to get past our own gravitywaves, that could result in a pretty hilarious complete back-track (like such units do when they move to a tile they end up unable to enter. Can you imagine the visual of an Imperator Titan attempting to move into a tile, finding a unit there, and then doing that rapid 'bounce back' along its own path instead of just smooshing the unit, hah.

You can have them lose weapons as HP drops, but you can't make something like subsystems targettable
You could give faction actions to all factions that allow you to use them on an enemy Titan and block specific weapons.
For example "Block main weapon" which will only work if the unit has:
- Less than 80% HP and no other "block X weapon"
OR Less than 60% HP and only one "block X weapon"
etc...
This would apply a trait common to all titans, and each titan would have one specific weapon disabled.

That would be a nigthmare to write, and would be kind of a weird UX. It also causes some issues with healing (How do you handle it if the unit is healed? Should the trait like be removed? In which order? Should there be more faction actions to "unblock" weapons? x_x). But hey, can't have everything, can you?

It's not too bad to write (I've done powershell scripts to make similar changes to every file when a mod I was working needed every unit changed), but it's HORRIBLE UX to the point I don't feel it's a valid option when every unit has multiple "dead actions" on their action bar. I ran a similar idea to let units get a one-time weapon customization (IE, devastator marines could pick lascannons, heavy bolters, or missile launchers after being trained, rather than an alternative of having 3 variants of devastator marines to train) - it 'worked' but you end up with unusable dead buttons everywhere. The UX issue is definitely worse than the code end on this (scrolling ability bars is.. not elegant in this game, hah).

What I think might be a more valid direction is giving it to some specific anti-titan units only, at least then we're not cluttering up every single UI element.

There's also some possibilities such as giving many action points to the Titan and making each weapon or ability (e.g turning on shields) cost action points :)

[/quote]

Yeah, that's how I have tinkered with them so far (get some amount of AP, every arm or turret etc is a 1 turn cooldown weapon that costs 1 AP to use, and they get a debuff to reduce their AP every HP threshhold).