Better AI. The big experiment

[twimpix]

I have been using observer mode to watch the AI murder each other and I must say that although not exactly bad, the AI is not very great either. Especially factions that have very fragile units, like the Eldar, they're sending them to be slaughtered one after the other. Neither of the Eldar factions make use of transporting between gates either. They rarely manage to build another city to begin with. By the way this is on all normal settings.

As for the balance, Orks and Necrons are nigh unbeatable. Chaos comes in at distant third. Tyranids are the weakest, the Eldar factions can consider themselves lucky if they're not the first ones to be wiped out (I am making the AI play an 11 player FFA on a large map, additionally, I make them do 1v1 matches too on fast settings and a tiny map, in a knock out championship).

Tyranids, Eldar and the Sisters of Battle never won a game. (I only recently started experimenting with Dark Eldar, obviously)

In my humble opinion, based on what I've seen after hundreds of hours of testing, Orks and Necrons need massive nerfs, Chaos to a lesser degree. Tyranids and Eldar need buffs.

From what I understand, AI modding at the moment is not available to the public.
Question is, will it ever be. Otherwise, is there a chance to get an update to AI?

Higher difficulty settings only increase bonuses. Ideally, I would like to see better behaviours instead.

[gizmo]

Thank you for all the testing.

TBH, for the games that allow modding, I always look for AI mods. For improvements, changes. I know that community would do magic when given a chance.

I've played recently 4-5 games and almost always Orcs and Necrons are on top. But also Astra Militarum.

Usually Eldar and T'au are beaten fast. When I've played them, it was also the hardest at the beginning. Especially Eldar - almost every units could be 1-shotted. T'au needed to spam drones which would be always priority nr 1 for enemy so my other units could survive.

But with Eldar I needed to non stop juggle with units - hide and heal/regenerate those who got hit and attack with another. AI can't do that so I really don't know how can it survive when attacked.

I would love for some AI improvements or some modding tools for AI changes.

[TemplarGR]

Watching the AI fight each other is not a great experiment for faction balance because the AI cannot exploit 100% of each faction, it depends a lot on how well it can utilize the faction's strengths. Obviously Necrons are easier to be good with, therefore the AI wins more with them.

[Jey]

Originally posted by twimpix:

From what I understand, AI modding at the moment is not available to the public.

You don't have access to the AI code directly, but you have access to various modifiers to alter how much they value some things.

[fmalfeas]

I haven't done that kind of testing, but have played a lot of games, and one thing I've noticed is that Tau goes one of two ways. They're either completely feeble, or utterly run away with things, and I think it has a lot to do with what they can/choose to build. Every time they've run away with things, they show up with a fleet of Hammerheads and a massive swarm of fire warriors and pathfinders backing them up. When they flail around and die, they trickle in small numbers of fire warriors and feed drone xp to whoever they're tickling until they get smashed.

I don't know if this is a resources thing, or a priority thing, but it seems like if the AI tau don't build a hammerhead, they're dead.

[Noodlesocks]

Despite the volume of content the game has received, the AI has never really been updated to accommodate all the nuances of these factions. It's why Eldar AI is often the first to die because the AI is using their units as they would any of the more resilient factions.

[kingdomofpig]

I hope Ai can use vehicle to transport unit. I never see them use.

[zemzero]

Even to fight against, Necrons are almost impossible.

[twimpix]

Originally posted by Noodlesocks:

Despite the volume of content the game has received, the AI has never really been updated to accommodate all the nuances of these factions. It's why Eldar AI is often the first to die because the AI is using their units as they would any of the more resilient factions.

Yeah, that's what I mean. The AI needs more work. I seem to remember the game being advertised as putting complicated diplomacy aside to have a better fighting AI. Then you get a bunch of factions, which is great, but the AI is not able to exploit the different game mechanics.

Most people don't play PVP, it would be great to be able to go up against a computer player that utilises all the tools at its disposal. Increasing game difficulty to give the AI more bonuses just does not cut it for me, I like to keep things fair.

I have been digging through the workshop to see if there was an improved AI mod or anything but there wasn't (like there was for the old Dawn of War games).

[twimpix]

Originally posted by kingdomofpig:

I hope Ai can use vehicle to transport unit. I never see them use.

Especially Chaos. They like to build a lot of Rhinos. For what reason, I cannot comprehend.

[TemplarGR]

Honestly the AI could just be improved in a more generic way. For example, it should be clearing wire weed. Instead, they seem to treat wire weed as a "wall" and if it closes a section of the map, they tend to avoid it, so you can use it in your favour. They should also have item lists for each hero and they should attempt to use items they earn and/or buy some items for their heroes eventually. Also as the game progresses they should stop making obsolete units and focus on later tiers. Those things alone could make the AI so much better, without going into faction specific stuff.

[Distemper]

Yeah I'm trying to do the Sister achievement "Defeat all heretics and aliens all together in highest difficulty"
And it's a big pain for a new player like me.
Still I usually stay and watch how the war unfolds, and the necrons and orks are often the final winner.
They have resilient units and decent firepower and are no doubt the kings of the Gladius.

[glythe]

Originally posted by zemzero:

Even to fight against, Necrons are almost impossible.

Overall the AI is carried by cheat levels on new units.

What makes the Necrons good is that they heal every turn with zero input. This helps them more than any other faction with unit preservation (when combined with level cheats this becomes even more valuable).

[i dont want to be around anymore]

Appreciate this thread, saved a purchase I would have been frustrated with due to bad AI

[TemplarGR]

Originally posted by i dont want to be around anymore:

Appreciate this thread, saved a purchase I would have been frustrated with due to bad AI

The AI is not "bad". In fact it is quite good as far as 4X games go and strategy games in general. There are many well known games, for example Civilization or Total War, that have attrocius AI compared to Gladius. Do not mistake threads like these as a criticism of the game.

Of course, you are free to buy whatever you wish, but claiming you will avoid this particular game because of AI doesn't hold water, if bad AI in strategy games bothers you, never get any strategy game because i have never ever played a 4X where the AI could hold a candle to the player without massive cheats.

[dexgattaca]

Unfortunately I haven't been able to figure out how the Strategy modifiers on Tech and Units work exactly. I know that on units it gives the AI a weighted value. Sometimea the AI will just skip research of a unit. Or an entire category of units. Sometimes the AI hick-ups and stops producing units.

I don't know how to get it build more or less of a building. For example the SM are always behind on research because it won't build more than two books. Also some actions that the AI can use are disabled. For example it's possible to make the AI use SM tactics...but it's missing that code.