Chaos Space Marines Tips and Tricks?

[WADIYATALKINABEET]

Hi everyone,

I recently purchased the game and several DLC alongside, and I'm currently enjoying playing each one vs AI while I look up information and strategy online to supplement my game play.
However, I've hit a snag, I cannot seem to find any substantial information on how to build armies, what to rush/research, what troops are not even worth building, that sort of thing. My solution was to play against an the AI CSM, and while it was helpful I was hoping the community could share any knowledge of how to play the CSM effectively, I would really appreciate it.

Thank you

[Stardustfire]

all 3 heros are good, each in his own field, Lord for smash, Smith for Vehicle repairs with a few hits/plasma cannon shots inbetwen, and the last to heal.
CSM Tacticals carry there weight, Obliterators and Reavers are great too.
Air Anoys the enemy to death as flying dmg sponges.
on the Vehicle side its mostly Land Raider (DLC) , the Hound Vehicles with the Guns (DLC) and Defilers for me. havnt tested the new DLC end unit till now. my friend is very font of Venomcrawlers.

Havocs seem to be a trap to me, same low standing power like SM Devastators, but the weapon lacks to compensate for that. Tacticals with Melter Bombs are a better choise if you cant bring it down with the bolters.
Same for Chaos Prince, it brings to less to the Table for its cost. exept his skill that gives boons.

[Jey]

Havocs suck.
Dark disciples suck.

Anything else can be used in its role.
You want to play full infantry with some chaos cultists to absorb overwatch/build some Noctilith crowns, all that lead by a Daemon Prince with decent gear?
Go ahead you sweet psychopath.

Not a fan of Daemon Prince? You like your heroes with Boon? Sure, a Chaos Lord can wreck even more damage than a Daemon Prince at the cost of requiring a special building.

You hate dumbasses who overrely on very geared heroes and you want subtlety?
The Master of Possession will be your best friend (once he turned all enemies into Chaos Spawns, buffed everyone with +30 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ % damage and accuracy and summoned a heldrakes or three to mess with the enemies).

"gnugnugnu infantry sucks, I don't want to lose models". It's ok, you're fully covered by your friends the Rhinos and their big brother Metabrutus and their friends the Forge and Maulerfiends. (Also Venomcrawlers. And Defilers and Chaos Land Raiders, but if you reach any of those three, you failed the Chaos Gods. The enemy should already be on the sacrificial altar).

"the chaos spawns cost too much food". Well then pick a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Warpsmith to basically fully regen one vehicle per turn. And if your warpsmith reaches lvl 6, here you go 4 resources building walking around just for you.

"gnugnu I don't want to spam the same building all the game". Then make a mix of vehicles and infantry.

Who the hell cares, everything goes with Chaos.



Just follow this easy guide :
- Start with an ore building
- Make your second city as fast as possible (usually turn 8-9 in standard speed. As early as turn 6 with good outposts/start)
- Make a Chaos Cult and make your third city.

Then do it like all other factions, produce units with all your resources, conquer the map, crush the enemy.

If you play a lot of infantry, try to have ONE city full of food building and use the rite of nurgle on it, because 33% food bonus? That's extremely good.

[Kazrim]

Khorne Berzerkers and Rhinos, you cannot go wrong with that as your core zerks also get melta bombs so they never fall off and will always have a role especially with rhinos denying overwatch. Just straight up skip CSM tacs they just pound for pound aren't really worth it also zerks are fearless so can't be pinned making them a constant very real threat.

Avoid the lord he doesn't really add anything your army can't already do on it's own.
MoP -> Crazy strong healing, can also "last hit" a unit near death to give you some free spawn
Smith -> God yes, chaos have some good vehicles and he adds a loooot of support for that, also later on gives mad economic bonuses.

In general chaos infantry kinda fall off(except zerks) so you'll really want to look to moving more towards a vehicle style, regular SM vehicles might be a little disappointing but chaos vehicles are no joke and definitely preform (except the hellbrute, just wait for next tech if you can)

Havocs are a bit of a trap stardustfire is right on that, but they aren't super bad vs like... nids/orks/eldar which have an allergy to long ranged overwatch but they're super super specific don't go out of your way for them.

Cultists are extremely important always be producing them, they build cities (a T0 unit at that!) allowing you to expand and build an economic base faster than nids, they can be sacrificed for pop growth and they're also not total ♥♥♥♥ for early expansion given their low cost. You can also aggressively scout someone and city drop them to be a ♥♥♥♥ it's funny to do. They can also slap down a noctilith crown which makes them still useful even late/endgame. Seriously, don't underestimate thy sacred meat puppet.

Don't be sad if a unit turns into spawn they aren't overly horrible, also they're very fast and can catch the AI (or a player) off guard with their crazy high movement. Good for trying to outmaneuver to hero snipe or be annoying and cap resource points deep in their territory.

Oblits I avoid sadly but they're probably okay in some matchups? Warp Talons have an interesting mechanic with their jump that blinds but this can also mean you effectively sign their death warrant in exchange for that blind? Idk about them I like my zerks in rhinos also Warp Talons don't get melta bomb sooo... meh.

Dark Disciples I don't have enough experience with to say anything on however invuln damage reduction is pretty good, so maybe weaving in a couple into your vehicle lines could have some interesting implications?

I hope this in general helps! (sorry for wall of text my man)

[WADIYATALKINABEET]

This is great information, thanks everyone for contributing, its appreciated.

[Mania]

I’ve had great success in full mech builds, complimented by the Lords. Combining the regen of all their vehicles (except Helbrutes and such) and those Smiths will give you one tanky army.
Rhino spam early game is decently viable, though only because of that regen, and you’ll do well with them all through early game and even mid game. Maulerfiends are a bit niche for me and Helbrutes are decent.
But Forgefiends? Gah, those things are powerful. Those and the Crawler(?) engine will be your mid and late game mainstays. From there, you can have some fun with the Land Raider, Defiler, and Greater Brass Scorpion. Although I don’t know how well the Scorpion performs.

[Jey]

Origineel geplaatst door Kazrim:

Just straight up skip CSM tacs they just pound for pound aren't really worth it

Most chaos units are melee. Having ranged support is very much worth it. Otherwise the first group of Umbra or psychneuien you face will be a pain, and if you are forced to fight across a river, you won't do ♥♥♥♥.

the lord he doesn't really add anything your army can't already do on it's own.

Have you ever tried to equip your chaos lord? It's an unkillable murder machine. It can one-hit any infantry unit until very late, and can deal a solid 2/3 to 3/4 of HP of any normal vehicle.
Also the additional boon chance can be nice on an infantry based build.

MoP -> Crazy strong healing

Using the MoP for heal is such a waste.

In general chaos infantry kinda fall off(except zerks)

Not sure what you mean by that.
Warp Talons and Obliterators are incredible, and tacticals also have Melta Bombs

but chaos vehicles are no joke and definitely preform (except the hellbrute

Are you kidding? The helbrute is a very heavy-hitter and 36 Hp and 8 armour for a measly 60 ore. It's definitely among the top vehicles...

Havocs [...] aren't super bad vs like... nids/orks/eldar which have an allergy to long ranged overwatch

Tacticals will outperform havocs because they can move and shoot.
I know the AI is usually dumb and won't try to kill your hiding havocs, but it's no reason to have an expensive 9 HP morale ruiner running around.

Oblits I avoid sadly but they're probably okay in some matchups?

They wreck anything they face, so yes they are "okay" in almost every matchup...

Warp Talons have an interesting mechanic with their jump that blinds but this can also mean you effectively sign their death warrant in exchange for that blind?

Giving -50% accuracy to 3 or 4 key infantry unit is worth a Talon.
But even without the blind (e.g against vehicles), the jump gives them incredible mobility and they deal heavy damage. Then the 33% invul, a mark, a boon or two, and you have a nightmare for enemies.

also Warp Talons don't get melta bomb

Indeed. Instead of dealing 15 damage every 10 turns, they deal 15 damage every turn.
While I slightly exagerate, their base damage is very high since they have 6 base AP.

Dark Disciples [...] weaving in a couple into your vehicle lines could have some interesting implications?

No.
Most vehicles are daemon and already have 33% invul, so the dark disciples give nothing.
Their damage are trash.
Making cultists and popping the occasional Noctilith Crown is more efficient, because cultists deal damage

"But Jey, the Noctilith crown can't move, whereas the dark disciples can! And you always said 'gnu gnu attack needs to move'"

Yeah, sure.
But you don't need the invul all the time.
Most of the time, you will send your cultists to die to OW, then move your troops (= you don't need invul).
Then after having moved your troops, the enemy is crippled, so you don't need invul.

You will need invul when in a siege, to break through tight defenses. And then you won't move a lot, so Noctilith will work great.

Most of the time, Dark disciples will just be in the way of your range 2 units finishing enemies.

Origineel geplaatst door Mania:

Maulerfiends are a bit niche for me

Killing vehicles while being incredibly tough and having a lot of movement is niche? :P

[Baronfuming]

I've been having success with the daemon engines in particular. Don't overlook your chaos space marines though. I keep them in teams of 3 with a rhino for mechanized infantry support. The mauler/forge fiends are the core of my army, but I can send out the rhino with space marines as a mobile support force to quickly maneuver around the front lines and secure outposts.

As mentioned by other posts, cultists are useful cannon fodder. They are so cheap that you can send them out to trigger overwatch from enemies you can't see yet to get them to revel themselves. I would gladly have my enemies waste their attacks on them instead of my marines or daemon engines.

[TemplarGR]

As per usual, too much bad advice from some people. It never ceases to amaze me how people who claim to actually like the game and spend a lot of time on it, do not understand the fundamentals of the strategy genre and wargaming.

For example some people claim Havocs are a bad unit. It is not, it is an excellent unit. And in many ways, better than the equivalent Devastator Space Marines. People misunderstand it because it is not a dedicated anti-armor unit, since it has lower armor penetration. But it deals the same potential max damage at the same range. It trades armor penetration for double the number of attacks. Therefore Havocs are better vs lightly armored infantry than the Devastators who can get pwned by lightly armored infantry. It is a trade off.... And guess what you are more likely to encounter earlier in the game, when Havocs are meant to be used. Both Devastators and Havocs are not meant to be anti-vehicle per se, but rather long range infantry. That is their main gimmick, range 3. They are defensive and fire support troops mostly. It is just that Havocs can defend better from infantry while Devastators can defend better from vehicles. Havocs higher rate of fire is very useful when combined with the Mark of Khorne and its Icon upgrade... With both the +17% attack rate and the +17% damage boosts, they obliterate the Devastators in terms of damage vs all things. And let's not get started with the boons...

Also, the Chaos Lord is an awesome T1 combat hero. He can deal a stupendous amount of melee damage vs armored targets (there is your early anti-armor), especially with his ultimate. He can also be extremely tanky and can return up to 3X melee damage too.... His passive to boost the boon rate of nearby infantry is just a bonus.... He is very cheap for what he provides. With some items, boons and marks he can be more powerful than any T10 unit.

As for advice on how to play Chaos, i will give you some, since it is basically my most loved faction (until they release Chaos Daemons at least....)

1) Early on in the game you have to decide if you are going to go heavy on infantry, or heavy on vehicles. I used to say that Chaos Space marines are an infantry focused faction, and in many ways they still are, but with unit packs many vehicles were added and it is not so clear cut anymore. Do not attempt to focus on both things at the same time, since building up their infantry can take a significant amount of research and planning and it goes to waste if you do not exploit their infantry in combat. Chaos have Chaos boons for most of their infantry units, those are passive traits that once unlocked through research, can be randomly given when they kill a unit (or granted with a Daemon Prince ability) and enhance them. They can also assign Marks and Icons of Chaos, which are permanent buffs at the cost of some influence, to their infantry, to further enhance them. Chaos Space Marine infantry boosted through boons and marks/icons can be extremely powerful, basically the most powerful infantry in the game. If you intend to use mostly vehicles, avoid researching boons and marks/icons, and focus on researching all vehicles except the Chaos Land Raider (which is not really worth it without exploiting it as a transport, assuming you own all unit packs, there are better vehicles from a cost/benefit standpoint). The opposite applies if you want to be infantry focused, the most important vehicles are the transports for you (and vehicles that provide anti-armor), and you need tons of super-buffed infantry. Obviously both routes do not prevent you from using both infantry/vehicles, i am talking about what you should mostly focus.

2) Exploit the sacrifice mechanics a lot. Constantly spam cultists and sacrifice them every 10 turns on all your cities to boost population growth. Also use population sacrifices to boost various aspects. Do not spam all sacrifices on all cities since the population growth cannot cover for the lost population. Focus on what you need at the time. The first sacrifice you unlock boosts building speed and research speed (only from the book buildings), the second sacrifice boosts growth and food production (from farms). The second use only on cities you have many farms. The third is just for unit production, do not ever use it unless you are making units. The final one is useful all around on all cities but is later in the game.

3) Choose the right "god" for your marks of chaos based on your type of infantry/hero. Nurgle is very useful for frontline troops (like the Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Spawn and Chaos Lord). Both it and its icon upgrade benefit a lot their survivability. Khorne is the opposite, is full on attack oriented, and is better for ranged troops meant to dish out damage, for example Havocs (Khorne Berzerkers come with Mark of Khorne by default). Slaanesh provides mobility and defense, it is mostly useful for agile, flanking troops, like the Warp Talons. Tzeentch also provides some defense and some infantry-in-cover clear (mostly useful for heroes who lack damage vs lots of models). All marks can also get the icon of vengeance upgrade, which provides the fearless trait to any unit that doesn't have it by default. The fearless trait together with the "Veterans of the old war" research can make your infantry completely resistant to morale damage.

4) If you plan to use the Master of Possession hero, make sure you always accompany him with a Venomcrawler after he is level 6. Venomcrawler is a great mid tier "tank" on its own, but has a passive ability that greatly reduces the cooldown of Master of Possession ultimate every turn it is next to him, allowing you to constantly summon units.

5) Do not underestimate Chaos Spawns. They are a very powerful frontline unit until the mid-late game. Buff them with the Mark of Nurgle since they have lots of hp. They are very mobile, use them for exploring. In the same vein, do not ignore the Helldrake. It is a powerful all-around air unit. Very hard to kill and can provide both anti-air and ground attack.

6) In the late game, Obliterators are your main infantry force, they cannot gain boons of chaos (can be assigned marks/icons though) but are more powerful by default. They replace all infantry except Warp Talons, Warp Talons especially buffed with boons can be really powerful. Use the Obliterators as the main, central line of battle, and use Warp Talons as flankers and hit-and-runners. Obliterators can be assigned any Mark from any god of Chaos, depending on your needs. Nurgle for front line tankiness, Khorne if you need firepower, Slaanesh if you lack transportation and need mobility, Tzeentch if you expect a lot of ranged exchanged with enemy infantry in cover.

[Erik Taurus]

@TemplarGR Which mods do you use to be able to build all these units and develop the boons etc and which game settings do you use (map size, game speed, AI difficulty)