Razorbacks vs Tactical Marines?

[MrUnimport]

New to the game and to 40k in general, trying to wrap my head around this game. These units cost the same, but Razorback seems to do more damage, have more mobility, have nearly the same armour as Tacticals. Why do I want to use Tacticals instead of pumping out all the Razorbacks I can afford?

[Noodlesocks]

You can only build one razorback at a time. You can build a Razorback and Marines together. Razorback is also a transport so you can then transport those marines with the razorback. Marines don't get movement penalty moving through ruins and forests and can use melta bombs

[Sevens]

Marines get bonus damage from doctrines, and bonus damage if they don't move before firing. Also apothecaries can heal marines quicker than the Thunderfire cannon. Marines also get bonus to damage mitigation while being in cover using ruins and forests.

[Archaon The Never-Chosen]

melta bombs and frag grenades mostly.

[Etrusco]

You know what, having to deal with a bunch of Razorbacks early on sounds quite annoying for the enemy but only if you also get Scout Bikers to run along with them (much higher dmg, you can also use melta bombs on them if you want). Tactical Marines have more dmg at close range than razorback and can get grenades but on the other hand single model high armor units (talking about tier 1 units) are quite problematic for some factions.

I'm a fan of skipping infantry and going bikes into Predators (you are good vs everything) and often saw the Razorbacks as perhaps the worst transport in the game but they could have a good role as a pure offensive unit.

[Foxassassin]

Originally posted by Etrusco:

I'm a fan of skipping infantry and going bikes into Predators (you are good vs everything) and often saw the Razorbacks as perhaps the worst transport in the game but they could have a good role as a pure offensive unit.

No, no, no. That title belongs to the Immolator. Edit: Maybe the Tyrannocyte, but I still lean towards the Immolator.

I used to hate hard on the Razorbacks, and while I still don't think they're great. I have had some success using them as primary early game units instead of tactical marines. Really depends on who you're fighting.

[LordZon]

Tell you what. Just build razorbacks instead of infantry and tell us how your game goes.

[Sneaky_Koala]

Originally posted by LordZon:

Tell you what. Just build razorbacks instead of infantry and tell us how your game goes.

Yep - that's the best way to do it. Test things out yourself. By the time you get any meaningful feedback you could have tested things out several times over. The obvious exception to this is 'real time' chats like Discord but even then depending on how active the group is it may be better to try things out yourself anyway.

[MrUnimport]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I see that the melta and krak grenades, and also being healable by Apothecaries, really makes Tacticals versatile and important units.

[pgames-food]

hi can i check where do we build tactical marines from?
i started a new game, and started out with 1 or 2 units of them, but cant seem to find where to actually build them. (they got killed, and was hoping to replace them :)

i have some heavy units so far, flamer, melta, psyker etc, but cant see them even in the Tactical Terminator Department. (is it because i added a mod that lets new players start with a hero? :)

[Jey]

They're built in the Apothecarion without any additional research.
if you don't see them, then yes it's likely a mod issue.

[Stormfox]

To add a bit to the original question:

You kinda want to build neither. You want to tech up and unlock more advanced units quickly while making do with mostly your starter units for a while. Building 1-2 extra tactical or bikes squads(depending on which of the two production buildings you built early on) to achieve just enough firepower to start whittling away at the weaker natives should do the trick until then.

With other factions, you would also prioritize the engineer units for extra cities, but with Space Marines you can skip that and go straight to unlocking the stuff that boost most of your units (like melta bombs - the other two are mostly superflous and rarely better than just dakka-ing) or that you need anyways (like the +pop and +loyalty buildings). Your early unlocks should include one unit with anti-heavy weapons and one that is decent against squads or a good generalist.

Land Speeders are decent early and likely the most cost-efficient and easy to use unit once you unlock their extra mulitmelta. Supplement these with either Predators (and build a second factory asap) or with a few Devastators (which tend to be too squishy later on but will do as heavy guns for now).

Since you do not need to build cities and your Captain should give you plenty of Influence from nothing (make sure to pump that skill, its by far his most useful one), you should be able to quickly pump out all three heroes and call down your Fortresses on cooldown.

Ignore the doctrines until you got a surplus of Influence and everything relevant set up. There are kinda only three worth using - the ones that affect most or half of your units, like all bolters get better, all vehicles heal and all infantry get tougher.

[pgames-food]

cool, thanks for the infos,
(yeah i'll have to try a new game after the current one, without mods and try again)

yup i picked the influence from xp skill, and was luckily to buy an expensive relic item that also generates free influence :) i think it cost 180 or 240 influence but worth it as long as the hero can stay alive :)

[Stardustfire]

icon is wasted at space marine heros, they dont need it, SM swim in Influence fast, the equipment slot is better invested with something that gives the hero more standing power, dmg output or mobility.

[pgames-food]

ah thanks i'll keep that in mind, in the current game i was burning through influence trying to keep using the 10 turn Outpost drop, which saved me a lot once it had some shielding, as well as the orbital bombardment (which gave me a 2nd orbital bombardment thanks to a hero having the ability too) :)

i think at the time i saw a whole bunch of relics on sale that i thought, i might as well get an item that gives me more in-game currency :) (but im still new) :)

[Stardustfire]

if you have a influence income problem the towers are funnily the solution, just drop a few near a shop/skullaltar and you get alot more out of it, despite you only see +2 from the outpost right eaten up from the tower upkeep at the surface. the 20% bonus can accumulate to alot. this will also hold you at influence stashes right before the numbers needed for the next tower.

for the start question: i see razorbacks as a waste of research points. you waste turns to research something you dont really need, just research the champion hall and the machine hall and get out of tier 1. tacticals are versatile and can deal with most stuff start to midgame, a long it isnt a robot. after melter bombs they can deal with all wildlife and still be a problem for most enemy faction units as long its not heavy/superheavy stuff, and even that dont want to eat melterbombs.