Are there titans in the game?

[Best Pureeyaa]

^

[Jey]

No.

[Best Pureeyaa]

Originally posted by Jey:

No.

Are they planned?

[Jey]

They are explicitly not planned.

[Stormfox]

And, as in basically any game that is not on a super macro scale, would also not make much sense, gameplay-wise.

The current superunits are already gargantuan-, knight- or supertank-sized and at a certain point it is simply not realistically possible to create a game where these units exist alongside basic infantry or light vehicles.

[Cursed Hawkins]

Originally posted by Stormfox:

And, as in basically any game that is not on a super macro scale, would also not make much sense, gameplay-wise.

The current superunits are already gargantuan-, knight- or supertank-sized and at a certain point it is simply not realistically possible to create a game where these units exist alongside basic infantry or light vehicles.

Titans in Gladius would need to be massively rebalanced to the point they would no longer be classified as titans, take for example the Emperor titan, a walker so massive that it literally deploys entire regiments of Imperial Guard where it stands but it's guns are also so massive that one would say one shot would destroy the entire ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ planet.

[Stardustfire]

we have some of the Tabletop Titanic Units: Baneblade, Phantom Knight, Scorpion, and some more.

[Red Star, Blood Moon]

Originally posted by Cursed Hawkins:

Originally posted by Stormfox:

And, as in basically any game that is not on a super macro scale, would also not make much sense, gameplay-wise.

The current superunits are already gargantuan-, knight- or supertank-sized and at a certain point it is simply not realistically possible to create a game where these units exist alongside basic infantry or light vehicles.

Titans in Gladius would need to be massively rebalanced to the point they would no longer be classified as titans, take for example the Emperor titan, a walker so massive that it literally deploys entire regiments of Imperial Guard where it stands but it's guns are also so massive that one would say one shot would destroy the entire ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ planet.

Yeah the stupid scale of 40k is the problem, which is why I don't get that nearly every genre even chess has been done to death but no space 4x has ever been made. It's like this setting was made for space 4x. It's the only actual scale that even makes sense to the setting of 40k, and even then that's not even coming anywhere close because an actual galaxy looks more like Elite Dangerous, and not like that "local stellar cluster" map of pretty much everything from Master of Orion 2 to GalCiv 3 to Endless Space. So. If you'd basically just set it in some sub-sector, like the way the map works in Inquisitor Martyr I'm a really big fan of and I hope that Owlcat's new Rogue Trader crpg has some type of exploration like that. Well, that kind of a map would work. Or kinda like how BFGA2 did it.

Point being that the actual stupid scale of 40k you can see it being unwieldy by the Dawn of War apocalypse mod. Everything in 40k is so exaggerrative beyond reality, like it's how the clinical narcissist running a dictatorship likes to say things are like, so as a result you pretty much have to exclude lots of things for the same reason why Gladius will never have any ships in orbit, because each modest size ship is bigger than cities. Same thing with Titans. A small class titan could basically just raze an entire settlement, depending the fluff you read. So it'd become like the really lame rush to dreadnought size ship, like in Endless Space 2 it basically becomes about who has the biggest ship because no amount of no matter how well done medium ships can take out a single large ship or two, the same way a whole fleet brimming with top upgrades small class ships can get ripped apart by just one medium ship. All that would matter in this game would be either teching up to titan to win the game, or blocking others from teching up.

Originally posted by Stardustfire:

we have some of the Tabletop Titanic Units: Baneblade, Phantom Knight, Scorpion, and some more.

Baneblade isn't a titan though. It's just another example of "everything here is American style XXXTREME BIG HUGE" than saying what it is, a really big mammoth tank.

[Ashardalon]

baneblade is a superheavy, just like the necron monolyth
not much smaller then a warhound on its belly
and most of that warhound is feet
not every titan is an imperator

[Cursed Hawkins]

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

baneblade is a superheavy, just like the necron monolyth
not much smaller then a warhound on its belly
and most of that warhound is feet
not every titan is an imperator

Except Warhounds ARE a titan classification more specifically of the Scout class, the large walkers that the Adeptus and Sisters have in Gladius aren't classified as titans, those would be known as knights and its a common mistake to think of them as titans.

[TemplarGR]

Titans are overrated.

[Ashardalon]

Originally posted by Cursed Hawkins:

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

baneblade is a superheavy, just like the necron monolyth
not much smaller then a warhound on its belly
and most of that warhound is feet
not every titan is an imperator

Except Warhounds ARE a titan classification more specifically of the Scout class, the large walkers that the Adeptus and Sisters have in Gladius aren't classified as titans, those would be known as knights and its a common mistake to think of them as titans.

didnt claim there where titans in
i said superheavies
wich arnt smaller then a titan

[Rebocador de Retardado]

I think they should include titan units or equivalents for all classes, as a form of victory condition, for example, you create a unit and to stop it, the enemies need to create something equivalent or spend everything they have to just try. This way the game's endings would no longer be so overwhelming, a mistake with this type of game is that over time it doesn't get cooler, but rather gets more boring. The biggest fun for players is the early and mid game, this is because developers don't think of good solutions to balance the experience. I have several ideas to make this game more fun, if I were a programmer, I would make extraordinary mods for this game! it has a lot of potential but the developers only copied a formula and this makes the end game the worst part of the game.

[Foxassassin]

Originally posted by Cursed Hawkins:

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

baneblade is a superheavy, just like the necron monolyth
not much smaller then a warhound on its belly
and most of that warhound is feet
not every titan is an imperator

Except Warhounds ARE a titan classification more specifically of the Scout class, the large walkers that the Adeptus and Sisters have in Gladius aren't classified as titans, those would be known as knights and its a common mistake to think of them as titans.

Honestly? I feel like giving SM either a Warhound or Direwolf as a true super unit and stopping there would be fine, and even then I guess the Direwolf would be pushing it?

I understand the want to not go overboard, but if the only argument is "Too big", Warhounds are almost the same size as Knight Lancers, which clearly weren't a problem.

And if it's not wanting to involve titans at all, that just seems like a strange self-imposed rule. 95% of Titans are too big/ powerful for the game, sure. But that doesn't mean you should just ignore that 5% that could possibly fit.

[Cursed Hawkins]

Originally posted by Foxassassin:

And if it's not wanting to involve titans at all, that just seems like a strange self-imposed rule. 95% of Titans are too big/ powerful for the game, sure. But that doesn't mean you should just ignore that 5% that could possibly fit.

You have to consider that each faction would need something roughly equal to that class of Titan and some factions probably don't even have anything remotely that close as the only factions (that I'm aware of anyway) to have Titans are the Imperium, Chaos, Eldar, Orks and Tyranids. Meaning the Tau would be the only faction currently in Gladius to not have an equal in terms of a scout Titan which is even assuming Tyranids HAVE scout tier Titans to begin with.

[Corseth]

Originally posted by Cursed Hawkins:

Originally posted by Foxassassin:

And if it's not wanting to involve titans at all, that just seems like a strange self-imposed rule. 95% of Titans are too big/ powerful for the game, sure. But that doesn't mean you should just ignore that 5% that could possibly fit.

You have to consider that each faction would need something roughly equal to that class of Titan and some factions probably don't even have anything remotely that close as the only factions (that I'm aware of anyway) to have Titans are the Imperium, Chaos, Eldar, Orks and Tyranids. Meaning the Tau would be the only faction currently in Gladius to not have an equal in terms of a scout Titan which is even assuming Tyranids HAVE scout tier Titans to begin with.

Ones I can think of...
There's the Hierophant for 'nids. It's a good bit bigger than a Knight, though it's not going to stand up to a Warhound Scout Titan 1on1 (going off current rules and point values, 50 wounds on a Warhound vs 34 on a Hierophant).

Necrons rather have a gap between knight sized, with the Seraptak, and 'big titan' size with the Aeonic Orb and Abbatoir, which have mostly just been hints and pieces of lore rather than actually showing up in games, apart from Epic, before. They're both 'emperor titan' or above level though, Necrons don't have anything (that has been really mentioned) in-between them and the Seraptak that I can think of.

T'au have their Supremacy Armors, and the Manta. The Manta has been used to engage Titans and act as one before and is somewhat superior to a Warhound individually. The Supremacy won't take a Warhound 1on1, but it's reasonably a 'scout titan' league. Honestly while they have nothing Emperor-Titan level, the Manta is pretty awesome. I think the Supremacy looks ridiculous but that might just be my tastes.

Honestly I think the biggest challenge I wrestle with with Titans is, in the bounds of what is possible to do in the Gladius engine, how do you make them anything more than just a 'T11' unit? They'd functionally just be more HP and more damage. Some of the ideas I've had are having weapons become disabled at certain HP threshholds, which SHOULD be doable (you can make active abilities require a min HP remaining), and leaving a permanent tile-blocking 'corpse' on destruction... but things that would be neat and make them function at least a little different than just a ton of HP in a single tile, like being multiple tiles in size and/or targettable subsystems, or some completely unique way of construction them for instance, are just not possible in the engine.