Line of Sight

[OneoftheLost]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2912299872

So exhibit A. Heavy Weapons squad cannot shoot enslaver, ignore the rest of the nonsense in the picture I was mid-rage. This happens frequently enough that I decided to track down the reason. Units just randomly cannot attack other units. So after some thread searches I learned this game has a rule called line of sight. Here's my question.

How did you guys learn about line of sight? Its not in the .pdf manual. Its not anywhere on the UI, and its not on the forest tile indicators. Did you pay the developers for a secret manual? Did you sacrifice several goats on an altar? Are you all bots?

This game is infuriating enough with OP Umbra and Enslavers, but the LoS rules driving me insane. Can someone tell me the manual page number or something? Clearly Im blind

[OneoftheLost]

Omg you are right! I must have skimmed over that section or something. Thank you!

[~HaY~]

so the forest between the enslaver and the HWT made it not possible to shoot the target.

I think elevator also makes a difference. When u look at each coordinate, there is x, y, and z. so if u and your target are on a z of 1, but there is a block between with a z of 2 or above, then u wont have line of sight.

Someone can correct me...

[Noodlesocks]

Originally posted by ~HaY~:

so the forest between the enslaver and the HWT made it not possible to shoot the target.

I think elevator also makes a difference. When u look at each coordinate, there is x, y, and z. so if u and your target are on a z of 1, but there is a block between with a z of 2 or above, then u wont have line of sight.

Someone can correct me...

You are correct. Had that scenario happen in most recent game. I was on elevation 2, as was enemy unit but there was a elevation 3 tile in the way. Was almost going to submit a bug report because I honestly couldn't see at first glance what was preventing me from shooting.

One thing this game does not do well is display elevation.

[OneoftheLost]

Originally posted by ~HaY~:

I think elevator also makes a difference. When u look at each coordinate, there is x, y, and z. so if u and your target are on a z of 1, but there is a block between with a z of 2 or above, then u wont have line of sight.

Someone can correct me...

Ok what? Tiles have elevation too? So two entire rules I had no idea about. Thats.... I don't even have the words.

Thanks for the help, I NEVER would have noticed that. I just assumed the numbers after the xyz were for when you have hexes turned on.

[Grotzel]

As far as I know tiles don't really have a specific value for elevation. It's just that there are cliffs - the dotted orange lines if you have them turned on - and they break line of sight (and movement)... at least in one direction.
So one side is 'higher' than the other, but that's - if I'm not mistaken - all of it.

[Stardustfire]

as a side note many things in the pdf are outdated by YEARS.
simple rule for los: are all tiles betwen you and target same high (3th number on the coordinate you get when hover over it) or lower than your tile and the targets tile? if a wood, ruin or ocupied city is on a tile count 1 to the tiles high.
city center shoud also count as one tile higher for targeting in both directions.
Flying units shoud count as 1 higher elevation as well for targeting purposes in both directions.
not 100% sure but smokescreen blocks all los.

[~HaY~]

Originally posted by Stardustfire:

as a side note many things in the pdf are outdated by YEARS.
simple rule for los: are all tiles betwen you and target same high (3th number on the coordinate you get when hover over it) or lower than your tile and the targets tile? if a wood, ruin or ocupied city is on a tile count 1 to the tiles high.
city center shoud also count as one tile higher for targeting in both directions.
Flying units shoud count as 1 higher elevation as well for targeting purposes in both directions.
not 100% sure but smokescreen blocks all los.

I sometime feel like there needs to be some in game line of sight simulator...

I don't even fully understand why sometimes cities can shoot over forest but sometimes not... Probably related to elevation somehow...

[Ashardalon]

does the city have someone else spotting
the close range bolter fire is direct fire, but the missiles are kindof like artillery and can use someone else his line of sight to shoot a target

[Stardustfire]

Depends on the City, but indeed, some Races Citys have Arti Weapons that dont need los. You can see it when you mouseover the weapon Icons if a weapon need los or not.

[I|III||I|||II|IIII|]

yes, it's horrible and unintuitive. Elevations play way too much of a role in this game and it's dam near impossible to see half of the landscape without zooming in. I use mods to remove everything I can in terms of ruins, trees, wire weed. Still annoying and makes literally no sense at all with ledges. You don't get a bonus for being on high ground, but instead the game punishes you with a sight penalty if you're a tile back from the ledge. And units can melee you from the low ground. It's honestly just poor game design by the devs.

The worst part is unit placement is crucial, but the game doesn't even give you an option to see each units line of sight. It's bad, really badly thought out...

[Ashardalon]

:/ i swear cliffs blocked the ability to melee
are you sure they didnt just shoot you with their pistols
could be misremembering

[Jey]

Originally posted by I|III||I|||II|IIII|:

The worst part is unit placement is crucial, but the game doesn't even give you an option to see each units line of sight. It's bad, really badly thought out...

You can preview if you have LoS on a tile by maintaining the right-click button.
You will see a red circle around units you can target from this position.

[I|III||I|||II|IIII|]

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

:/ i swear cliffs blocked the ability to melee
are you sure they didnt just shoot you with their pistols
could be misremembering

same thing really though. 1 range is basically melee and without vision of the top of the ledge they can still attack you, so it makes literally no sense at all. If you scout at the start of the map and run into a ledge you're not going to be able to even clear the fog of war. Same if you drop your main capital with space marines. But when I have other units giving me vision I can attack with a flame thrower from lower ground.
With trees it acts completely different though. It seems impossible to see further than 1 set of trees no matter what you do. Anything within 1 range of a unit can be attacked by anything if that unit has vision from a different unit, but the manual claims units don't share vision and need a line of sight...

[I|III||I|||II|IIII|]

Originally posted by Jey:

units you can target from this position.

This is also not something viable if you're setting up for overwatch.

[Ashardalon]

no 1 range attacks arnt the same as a melee attack
marines shooting their pistol or marine shooting their pistol and carving you apart with their chainsword is a reasonable difference