Which faction DLC to get first?

[WolfTooth]

Been considering getting a faction DLC whilst they're on sale and not sure which one I should get.

Thematically, the Tyranids have always been my favorite 40k race but their actual playstyles dosnt seem to mesh well with how I typically play 4xs.

I like to build tall in almost every 4x I play and focus on building up a strong economic and scientific base before unleashing a massive military late game and crushing my enemies.

Im not a big fan of glass cannons and prefer factions that have survivable units. I prefer "quality" over "quantity".

[Red Bat]

I personally find Tyranids my favorite faction.

But Sisters of Battle kind of have to be played a bit like you said. They can only have one "big" city, with every other one being more limited. They have some glass cannon units, but for the most party they get a big damage reduction boost making their units deceptively tanky.

[TemplarGR]

Actually, based on what you said, Tyranids is what you need....

While Tyranids aren't meant to be built tall in Gladius (they get smaller cities + penalty reductions for more cities), they can most of the time be played by "turtling". In fact, i would argue most people play them this way in Gladius.

There are basically 2 major ways to "open" the game for Tyranids, go with Tyranid Prime hero + a few Tyranid warriors, for a more aggresive early approach, or skip Prime and his warriors and go with Tervigon instead. Tervigon can be used to defend your base and spam termagants for consumption to speed up your economy. (You could get both but you are better off not spending the extra resources in the early game and keeping them for Hive Tyrant and other units).

The second approach is more defensive, you will only scout around your area and keep to yourself while building your tech and economy. Tyranids tend to get the best units later in the game. From the available early units, Tyranid Warriors are in my opinion the only viable ones later in the game (especially for their synapse) but only when paired with a Prime to boost their damage. Most of their good units arrive later.

They also offer the benefit of reclaiming units in order to build more advanced ones. I typically disband early units to save on upkeep (and micromanagement) when playing other factions, but i always lose the initial resources i spent. With Tyranids, i could reclaim a lot of those resources plus speed up the production of their replacement. So with Tyranids, i tend to always have an up-to-date army with the latest tier units.

In my opinion, if you actually like Tyranids thematically, and want to play a "turtle" late game playstyle, just get them. They are not the most late game faction in the game, but they can be played in the way you enjoy.

Other than the Tyranids, a perfect fit for you would be Adeptus Mechanicus. They are the "tallest" faction in the game, excluding the Space Marines obviously. They can have an impressive economy in the late game, and they too get their best units later in the game.

[WolfTooth]

Originally posted by TemplarGR:

Actually, based on what you said, Tyranids is what you need....

While Tyranids aren't meant to be built tall in Gladius (they get smaller cities + penalty reductions for more cities), they can most of the time be played by "turtling". In fact, i would argue most people play them this way in Gladius.

There are basically 2 major ways to "open" the game for Tyranids, go with Tyranid Prime hero + a few Tyranid warriors, for a more aggresive early approach, or skip Prime and his warriors and go with Tervigon instead. Tervigon can be used to defend your base and spam termagants for consumption to speed up your economy. (You could get both but you are better off not spending the extra resources in the early game and keeping them for Hive Tyrant and other units).

The second approach is more defensive, you will only scout around your area and keep to yourself while building your tech and economy. Tyranids tend to get the best units later in the game. From the available early units, Tyranid Warriors are in my opinion the only viable ones later in the game (especially for their synapse) but only when paired with a Prime to boost their damage. Most of their good units arrive later.

They also offer the benefit of reclaiming units in order to build more advanced ones. I typically disband early units to save on upkeep (and micromanagement) when playing other factions, but i always lose the initial resources i spent. With Tyranids, i could reclaim a lot of those resources plus speed up the production of their replacement. So with Tyranids, i tend to always have an up-to-date army with the latest tier units.

In my opinion, if you actually like Tyranids thematically, and want to play a "turtle" late game playstyle, just get them. They are not the most late game faction in the game, but they can be played in the way you enjoy.

Other than the Tyranids, a perfect fit for you would be Adeptus Mechanicus. They are the "tallest" faction in the game, excluding the Space Marines obviously. They can have an impressive economy in the late game, and they too get their best units later in the game.

Initially, I was offput by the thought of playing a melee focused army but after finishing my first game as the Necron I realize theres not a *major* difference between a "ranged" (Necron warriors) and melee focused unit. Especially since Necron Warriors get a buff if they shoot at their targets at half distance (one hex)

[TemplarGR]

Originally posted by WolfTooth:

Originally posted by TemplarGR:

Actually, based on what you said, Tyranids is what you need....

While Tyranids aren't meant to be built tall in Gladius (they get smaller cities + penalty reductions for more cities), they can most of the time be played by "turtling". In fact, i would argue most people play them this way in Gladius.

There are basically 2 major ways to "open" the game for Tyranids, go with Tyranid Prime hero + a few Tyranid warriors, for a more aggresive early approach, or skip Prime and his warriors and go with Tervigon instead. Tervigon can be used to defend your base and spam termagants for consumption to speed up your economy. (You could get both but you are better off not spending the extra resources in the early game and keeping them for Hive Tyrant and other units).

The second approach is more defensive, you will only scout around your area and keep to yourself while building your tech and economy. Tyranids tend to get the best units later in the game. From the available early units, Tyranid Warriors are in my opinion the only viable ones later in the game (especially for their synapse) but only when paired with a Prime to boost their damage. Most of their good units arrive later.

They also offer the benefit of reclaiming units in order to build more advanced ones. I typically disband early units to save on upkeep (and micromanagement) when playing other factions, but i always lose the initial resources i spent. With Tyranids, i could reclaim a lot of those resources plus speed up the production of their replacement. So with Tyranids, i tend to always have an up-to-date army with the latest tier units.

In my opinion, if you actually like Tyranids thematically, and want to play a "turtle" late game playstyle, just get them. They are not the most late game faction in the game, but they can be played in the way you enjoy.

Other than the Tyranids, a perfect fit for you would be Adeptus Mechanicus. They are the "tallest" faction in the game, excluding the Space Marines obviously. They can have an impressive economy in the late game, and they too get their best units later in the game.

Initially, I was offput by the thought of playing a melee focused army but after finishing my first game as the Necron I realize theres not a *major* difference between a "ranged" (Necron warriors) and melee focused unit. Especially since Necron Warriors get a buff if they shoot at their targets at half distance (one hex)

Actually, there is a large difference between ranged and infantry weapons (you shouldn't think in terms of units, but in terms of weapons, many melee units carry ranged weapons as well, and many ranged units are only range 1, or like the Necron Warriors, best at range 1).

It is a big subject to discuss in detail, but in general:

1) There are many ranged damage reduction buffs, from cover from forests, ruins, and cities/outposts, to traits like shrouded. Melee weapons obviously bypass those. So when you attack an infantry unit inside a forest, melee weapons are going to do much more damage

2) Melee weapons cannot overwatch (with rare exceptions like Lictors).

3) Melee weapons (from ground units) can't fire at aerial units at all

4) Ranged weapons can have more hex range.

5) Necron Warriors in particular, have half the number of attacks at range 2, BUT, they can still attack (and overwatch) at range 2. Half the damage is better than no damage.

As for Tyranids, without any unit pack, they are a very melee focused faction. Even the units that have ranged weaponry, tend to not focus on it. But, 2 of their most powerful vanilla units are ranged, the Exocrine and Tyrannofex (their highest tier vanilla unit). Unit packs include Hive Guards and Biovores for some additional earlier game ranged power.

[Grotzel]

Originally posted by WolfTooth:

Initially, I was offput by the thought of playing a melee focused army but after finishing my first game as the Necron I realize theres not a *major* difference between a "ranged" (Necron warriors) and melee focused unit. Especially since Necron Warriors get a buff if they shoot at their targets at half distance (one hex)

Yes ... and no. :) The difference between one and two hexes may seem small, especially with units that get a close combat bonus. There are also several 'ranged' units that actually have to fight adjacent to their target.

However, there are considerable practical differences. Two hexes range CAN be very important in close packed battlefields - and for overwatch. Very few melee units have overwatch. Melee also ignores cover but cannot target flying units. Additionally, there are a number of different effects that influence ranged and melee combat units.

- Oh. Templar was already faster. ;)

[WolfTooth]

Originally posted by TemplarGR:

Originally posted by WolfTooth:

Initially, I was offput by the thought of playing a melee focused army but after finishing my first game as the Necron I realize theres not a *major* difference between a "ranged" (Necron warriors) and melee focused unit. Especially since Necron Warriors get a buff if they shoot at their targets at half distance (one hex)

Actually, there is a large difference between ranged and infantry weapons (you shouldn't think in terms of units, but in terms of weapons, many melee units carry ranged weapons as well, and many ranged units are only range 1, or like the Necron Warriors, best at range 1).

It is a big subject to discuss in detail, but in general:

1) There are many ranged damage reduction buffs, from cover from forests, ruins, and cities/outposts, to traits like shrouded. Melee weapons obviously bypass those. So when you attack an infantry unit inside a forest, melee weapons are going to do much more damage

2) Melee weapons cannot overwatch (with rare exceptions like Lictors).

3) Melee weapons (from ground units) can't fire at aerial units at all

4) Ranged weapons can have more hex range.

5) Necron Warriors in particular, have half the number of attacks at range 2, BUT, they can still attack (and overwatch) at range 2. Half the damage is better than no damage.

As for Tyranids, without any unit pack, they are a very melee focused faction. Even the units that have ranged weaponry, tend to not focus on it. But, 2 of their most powerful vanilla units are ranged, the Exocrine and Tyrannofex (their highest tier vanilla unit). Unit packs include Hive Guards and Biovores for some additional earlier game ranged power.

Would you recommend the Fortification pack for the Biovores?

[TemplarGR]

Originally posted by WolfTooth:

Originally posted by TemplarGR:

Actually, there is a large difference between ranged and infantry weapons (you shouldn't think in terms of units, but in terms of weapons, many melee units carry ranged weapons as well, and many ranged units are only range 1, or like the Necron Warriors, best at range 1).

It is a big subject to discuss in detail, but in general:

1) There are many ranged damage reduction buffs, from cover from forests, ruins, and cities/outposts, to traits like shrouded. Melee weapons obviously bypass those. So when you attack an infantry unit inside a forest, melee weapons are going to do much more damage

2) Melee weapons cannot overwatch (with rare exceptions like Lictors).

3) Melee weapons (from ground units) can't fire at aerial units at all

4) Ranged weapons can have more hex range.

5) Necron Warriors in particular, have half the number of attacks at range 2, BUT, they can still attack (and overwatch) at range 2. Half the damage is better than no damage.

As for Tyranids, without any unit pack, they are a very melee focused faction. Even the units that have ranged weaponry, tend to not focus on it. But, 2 of their most powerful vanilla units are ranged, the Exocrine and Tyrannofex (their highest tier vanilla unit). Unit packs include Hive Guards and Biovores for some additional earlier game ranged power.

Would you recommend the Fortification pack for the Biovores?

Personally, i haven't used them much. They are not a bad unit, but they lack armor penetration and their single target damage is very low. They are basically, anti-infantry artillery with 3 models. Range 3. They can also create (every 5 turns) Spore Mines, which are a summoned unit that explodes on impact. Not bad damage, but mainly anti-infantry as well. Problem is that Biovores provide anti-infantry in a faction that has no problem whatsoever with dealing with infantry.

So, while they are not bad to own, i wouldn't buy that DLC for them in particular. They are my least favorite unit of the Fortification pack.

[glythe]

My suggestion: buy all the "unit packs"

Escalation pack
Specialist pack
Assault pack
Fortification pack
Reinforcement pack

Then pick one of the factions on sale for ~9$. The options there are Tau, Eldar and Chaos.

Originally posted by WolfTooth:

Been considering getting a faction DLC whilst they're on sale and not sure which one I should get.

Tyranids are almost exclusively a melee faction. They are also kind of a "rush/zerg" faction in that they do best by ending the game before people get to tier 7 units.

This is how all the best players describe them so I didn't want to buy them.


I really liked the Chaos DLC. You sacrifice cultists to make cities grow faster and sacrifice population to have really fast build times. Together these work really well as it's easy to have more population than you can actually use with Chaos. They have some decent units but their main infantry have slightly worse morale than space marines - but make up for this by being able to have a mark of Khorne for better damage.


Tau have a really fun building mechanic with utopia. You want one of each building per city for the best bonus. They are a heavy range faction with some nice units and have very good "decoy chaff".


Eldar are squishy and have the worst city mechanic with the warp gates. As a result I didn't want to buy them either.


They aren't on sale but the Sisters of Battle look really good. They are basically a blend of Space Marine style untis with Necron style "tomb" city founding. I will get them probably next year on the summer sale.

[TemplarGR]

Originally posted by glythe:

Tyranids are almost exclusively a melee faction. They are also kind of a "rush/zerg" faction in that they do best by ending the game before people get to tier 7 units.

This is how all the best players describe them so I didn't want to buy them.

Anyone who described them like that, is not a good player. They are nothing like a rush/zerg faction (apart from the obvious Starcraft thematic similarities). They are not good at early rushing (their early units are mostly too weak and need synapse), and their best units are late tier units. Even without unit packs they are fine vs late game units, and Scythed Hierodule is one of the heaviest units in the game.

[Red Bat]

I will add that in my experience, Tyranids are indeed a bit of a slow burn. For the first 20 turns they are probably the second weakest faction (and absolute weakest if you are sacrificing early Termagaunts for construction like you probably should).

Originally posted by TemplarGR:

Anyone who described them like that, is not a good player. They are nothing like a rush/zerg faction (apart from the obvious Starcraft thematic similarities). They are not good at early rushing (their early units are mostly too weak and need synapse), and their best units are late tier units. Even without unit packs they are fine vs late game units, and Scythed Hierodule is one of the heaviest units in the game.

To be fair, it's probably possible to get a strong early game going with Tyranids if you completely sacrifice your mid game to do it. I very much doubt it's optimal, but if it's a 1 on 1 you might be able to muscle an Astra Militarium player through an early rush. Can't imagine it'd work very well vs any other faction though, and I seriously doubt it's more reliable than a tech rush strategy.

Tyranids strike me as hitting their biggest power spike around the later part of midgame. They do get signature units at the very tale end of the game, but I think relative to the power curve of other factions they peak beforehand.

Also one thing to keep in mind. Tyranids produce units faster than other factions, in a game where every unit can only attack one unit per turn. That means if Tyranid production gets out of hand, it might be theoretically impossible to win without some cheese if you aren't able to destroy them faster than they are produced.

Originally posted by WolfTooth:

Would you recommend the Fortification pack for the Biovores?

Biovores are one of the most fun units I've used, but I don't think they are often optimal. A lot of research is either rarely used or never used simply because there's an opportunity cost associated with it and Biovores come at at a time when you might be otherwise doing your strategy defining researches while Biovores often might not even be worth making even after researching. That said... They are range 3 in a faction that's mostly stuck fighting adjacent units, so they become a lot more useful if the map design includes a lot of bottlenecks. Still a tough call even in edgecase situations.

[The Doctor]

'Nids are really great fun to play with. Just adapt your usual 4X playstyle to accomodate them and you'll probably have a blast.

Someone recommended the Chaos faction and I'd second that suggestion. They're one of the most fun factions to play with, they have plenty of hitting power and can take hits back.

T'au can get off to a pretty good start by converting the wildlife with influence and their drones are very interesting but there's no denying that they're tough to manage later in the game. But they can do well in the early game if played carefully.

Mechanicus can also do well if there are a few Kastellan robots in the vicinity as you can convert them and having even one in the early game is a very big boost. However, no Kastellans, not much 'fun' unless you enjoy playing very carefully.