are the eldar bad?!

[pugums]

So i keep playing the eldar and every time it just goes poorly, They are just so freaking fragile, do such little damage to higher tier units and are the most fragile things ever, constantly dying in a few shots ever from cover.

Even there high tier units i got to play with just dont compare to the other factions and just get walloped while only outputting minimal damage. I feel something that could improve them is just making there guardians have 2 tiles of range to improve their early game as in the tabletop they have the same range as marines but half of it here. Dont get that.

But i just wanna know if there is something im missing. If any of yall have tactics to make the faction work and if im just not understanding em.

[vindicator]

Eldar troops require farseer with doom ability or seers to lower enemy morale for damage boost. Guardians got best weapons and worst armor - they cant receive enemy fire at all and will be focused by AI as number one targets.

[Antpile]

I haven't played them in a while, but I remember them hitting pretty hard. Fragile and fast glass cannons.

[RED /(Weber)\]

Eldar play akin to how they do on tabletop, hit and run, kiting if feasible, mobile glass cannons. You need to make use of their mobility

[Corseth]

Guardians do outrageously high damage for starter infantry but are super fragile. Don't attempt to run them into overwatch; set up ambushes where the enemy won't have sight. They'll walk into your overwatch, get heavily mauled, then you can shoot then move on your next turn to finish units off while also retreating. Essentially as Eldar, you MUST shoot first until you start getting tankier units midgame.

Avoid situations early game where your units run forwards into the enemy; make enemies come to you. Rangers are a lot easier to use than Guardians, if you're having trouble. Once you get to Warlocks and War Walkers you can walk over pretty much anything. If you absolutely need a unit to look ahead early game, Shining Spears are way better than Guardians as scouts and at triggering overwatch.

[Stardustfire]

@Red not sure what eldar players you meet at TT, i play them myself and they hit and dont need to run after that because there is nothing left to threaten the units.
problem in gladius is 2,5 fold:
1. several key backbone TT units are spared out, most obvious are the Khaindar.
2. Gladius state convertion from TT was made abysmal, only to fit a Glas Cannon Theme (ignoring the Facct TT Eldar are not Glas Cannons and fogeting to give them the dmg output needed to be a Glas cannon) . most horrible example is the Knight, a TT Titan Unit that makes normal Tanks of other Races laugh about the stats of weapon dmg and durability in Gladius.
2b. Unit masses are done pour in the conversion. Guardians as an Example (if you find a TT Eldar that uses them) come in the same mass as a Impirial Guard Unit, with a antigrav support weapon on top. now we look at a gladius Guardian Unit and missing Tons of Modells in that Unit plus the support. same for several other Eldar Units. This is even more obvious because each other race has at least nearly normal min model mass in there infantery units.

[Noodlesocks]

They certainly play differently, relying more on reaction and Battle Focus to do the damage and get out of the fight. Keep your dudes in cover, don't push without knowing what's ahead. The healer hero is a definite must. Once you get to prisms and aircraft they largely play like every other faction.

[RED /(Weber)\]

Originally posted by Stardustfire:

@Red not sure what eldar players you meet at TT, i play them myself and they hit and dont need to run after that because there is nothing left to threaten the units.
problem in gladius is 2,5 fold:
1. several key backbone TT units are spared out, most obvious are the Khaindar.
2. Gladius state convertion from TT was made abysmal, only to fit a Glas Cannon Theme (ignoring the Facct TT Eldar are not Glas Cannons and fogeting to give them the dmg output needed to be a Glas cannon) . most horrible example is the Knight, a TT Titan Unit that makes normal Tanks of other Races laugh about the stats of weapon dmg and durability in Gladius.
2b. Unit masses are done pour in the conversion. Guardians as an Example (if you find a TT Eldar that uses them) come in the same mass as a Impirial Guard Unit, with a antigrav support weapon on top. now we look at a gladius Guardian Unit and missing Tons of Modells in that Unit plus the support. same for several other Eldar Units. This is even more obvious because each other race has at least nearly normal min model mass in there infantery units.

It used to be a lot of mobility tactics. What was it, a number of eldar units had a stunning 24" move units as opposed to like, Death Guards 5" for the Plague Marines?

[Antpile]

Originally posted by Stardustfire:

@Red not sure what eldar players you meet at TT, i play them myself and they hit and dont need to run after that because there is nothing left to threaten the units.
problem in gladius is 2,5 fold:
1. several key backbone TT units are spared out, most obvious are the Khaindar.
2. Gladius state convertion from TT was made abysmal, only to fit a Glas Cannon Theme (ignoring the Facct TT Eldar are not Glas Cannons and fogeting to give them the dmg output needed to be a Glas cannon) . most horrible example is the Knight, a TT Titan Unit that makes normal Tanks of other Races laugh about the stats of weapon dmg and durability in Gladius.
2b. Unit masses are done pour in the conversion. Guardians as an Example (if you find a TT Eldar that uses them) come in the same mass as a Impirial Guard Unit, with a antigrav support weapon on top. now we look at a gladius Guardian Unit and missing Tons of Modells in that Unit plus the support. same for several other Eldar Units. This is even more obvious because each other race has at least nearly normal min model mass in there infantery units.

Gladius is based on 7th edition I think. They have rules such as open topped and whatnot that phased out in 8th.

That being said, I think they did a wonderful job of maintaining the proper feel of the factions despite working with an entirely different system. No dice rolls. We're buildings towns and gathering resources so we can make these units. A tech tree. I'm mainly a necron player on TT, and their units in gladius all feel and act pretty much how I'd expect them to despite an entirely different system going on.

[Wiresky]

Not bad, but I would say they have the highest skill requirement.

[zimbrax]

Originally posted by Wiresky:

Not bad, but I would say they have the highest skill requirement.

I'm not saying you are wrong, it's just funny that every game I played where Eldar were featured thats always how people view them. From RTS all the way to FPS games. The developers seem to be very consistent in that regard.

It kind of makes sense aswell, since they always seem to be depicted as the race that requires good timings and positioning in order to be effective, due to their glass cannon design.

However this can make them look overpowered in the right hands and underpowered for people with less experience, which can make them hard to balance.

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by zimbrax:

I'm not saying you are wrong, it's just funny that every game I played where Eldar were featured thats always how people view them.

It's not that odd - "highly specialized 'glass-cannons'" is how they were designed by their parent company, and every developer who wishes to legally depict the Eldar in a video game needs to stay true to the design set forth by their creators.

Anyone who tried to depict the average Guardian as being a muscle-bound hulk who smushed space marines to jelly with their bare hands, for example, would lose their War40K license faster than they could say, "Intellectual Property". ;)

[pugums]

for anyone who is still interested in this thank you for all the tips and thoughts on this subject. I finally got an understanding of the eldar, they seem to have an ok start, weak middle and super powerful late game. until i started getting war walkers out i was hanging on by the skin of my teeth but those walkers just one shot just about anything. There an interesting faction and i do have ideas on how to improve my mid game by using transports and fire dragons as well as flyers that i never got to as there resourcing seems bad due to low pop growth so the only way i can think to fix that in playing is use more autarchs due to there resource boosting abilities.

Overall they can be fun but nothings better then my boyz da orks lol

[zimbrax]

Originally posted by DasaKamov:

It's not that odd - "highly specialized 'glass-cannons'" is how they were designed by their parent company, and every developer who wishes to legally depict the Eldar in a video game needs to stay true to the design set forth by their creators.

Anyone who tried to depict the average Guardian as being a muscle-bound hulk who smushed space marines to jelly with their bare hands, for example, would lose their War40K license faster than they could say, "Intellectual Property". ;)

I agree, as I said, the only problem with that is that balance might be trickier with them, since players can have quite different experiences depending on their "skill level", if you want to put it that way.

[Stardustfire]

@Dasa you shoud read at least basic TT Rules and Codex, and than show me an Eldar Unit with bad survivabilty. your statement is so total ywrong as can be. Greedy Wonkers never designed Eldar to be glass connons.
a race with high specialiced units for hefty point costs, thats what eldar are about.
most Aspct Units are as durable or even more than Tactical SM when it comes to Armor, and we not even count in all the special rules for dmg evasion.
maybe im Biased because i played Bil Tan Bladestorm long before GW made that special Craftworld rules for Aspect Armys.

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by Stardustfire:

show me an Eldar Unit with bad survivabilty.

I'll show you three, and that's just for starters.

Guardians.
Swooping Hawks.
Howling Banshees.

All excellent units when played intelligently. All can be brought down by anything stronger than a lasgun (and even lasguns are a significant threat).