Thoughts on the Astra Militarum as of current DLC

[Felius]

Have been playing on hard with the Astra Militarum. Quests and Lord of Skull disabled because they tend to dominate the focus of the game when enabled. All other DLC are enabled. Here's my thoughts on the matter:

Killing the enemy is good, but not getting eliminated is even better; Don't be afraid to play defensively and push slowly. Or even to pull back forces to defend if another enemy comes in when you one or two turns away from defeating a given enemy.

Basic guardsmen are obscenely good at holding the line for their cost, specially when in cover. They have good health and the medpacks will buy you an extra turn if they aren't killed in a single turn. ♥♥♥♥♥♥ armor, sure, but let's be frank, most other factions have much better AP anyway.

Heavy Weapons Team aren't really that good. Considerably better on the defense, but probably not the best damage dealer you have, but cheap enough that you might as well use them until you get something better.

Ratling Snipers: Really good for their price. The bane of enemy infantry. A lot of units are infantry. Including Eldar Wraith Knights and more. Will deal the best damage against them, and for an absurd bargain Might get nerfed in upcomming patches though.

Tempestus Scionis: Solid infantry. Less HP than guardsmen, so probably not the best option as line infantry is to hold the line (or to put in chimeras). Might be good to have a small handful to harden up a line and do some killing while the guardsmen do the dying, but not the biggest priority.

Ogryn: I legit don't even bother researching. Might be good if you are going against Tau or other Astra Militarum army I guess? I need to do more testing.

Lord Commissar: You know what I said about the Heavy Weapons Team? Those were all lies and slander (or is it libel, since I wrote it?). +3 accuracy and once every 3 turns giving 6 extra AP? Suddenly those missile launchers became really good, specially for their low cost, even if you have to move to get in range. Ratling Snipers? What's your opinion on murder? With extra emphasis on the italics for emphasis. Because suddenly they will be the killiest thing you can ever have field for 15 ore against other infantry (and, as mentioned, that's a broad category). Your line infantry? Suddenly even your basic guardsmen can fight better than most infantry from other factions. They give kinda marginal benefits to Tempest Scionis though, but still enough of a buff to be noticeably.

And all that? With more survivability than you might expect, specially when you get the level 6 revival skill (cooldown of 10 turns, but that's doable). If you have the influence, do buy the commissar the two items to give it +3 armor, plus the +3HP/+100% HP Regen item. Other items include the extra movement or other mobility enhancing items (extra mobility can mean that a single commissar can keep more infantry buffed depending on how you spread them up), and of course the extra influence and research items if you have the slots and the influence to get it. They are not actual fighters and damage dealers, so don't be too worried about giving them full blown combat items though.

Tank Commander: Take a Leman Russ. Make it objectively better. Give it the capability to buff other tanks. That's what you get with this. And can be researched early too. Get one as soon as you can.

Primaris Psyker: I probably should use it more, but I end not focusing much on them, so I'm less than qualified to speak about if they are good or not.

Sentinels: Great power spike from infantry. Get at least a few and use them. Not the best combat vehicle, but great scout and can always absorb some fire.

Hydra: If you are fighting Necrons or Tau, it's death on wheels tracks. Great at killing Skimmers and flyers. Still decent at killing land units. Make sure you have at least a few, possibly more.

Chimeras: Great at moving infantry. Solid at fighting so long it has at least one infantry inside. If destroyed with infantry inside, infantry also dies. Infantry does heal while inside, even if the chimera is fighting. Don't keep more than one guardsmen (or whatever unit needs a lot of healing) while using it to fight and hold the line. Don't keep less than one while fighting either.

Leman Russ: Great tank. Extra Bolters are a must.

Baneblade: Kills everything. Slow as hell. Unless the enemy manages to really hold out or you outright rush for it when you do get it you might have already won, just need to mop things up.

Valkyrie: Great infantry transport, outright vital in huge maps. Great at fighting with the extra bolter research. The bolter is probably going to be the biggest damage, so if you are using it to fight, keep it at 2 hex or less to make use of it.

Thunderbolt: Really good at killing other flyers, specially once you research the AA missile (but that's late research, so anyway). Still great at killing ground targets. Only problem is the 4 energy upkeep. Get as many as you can without destroying your economy.

Marauder: They are good, don't get me wrong, but like the baneblade when you do get to research them you either rushed or you hopefully already effectively won. At 12 energy upkeep though, it will be a pain in the ass to keep flying if you actually need it.

Overall strategy is basically dominate the defense towards a given direction and start to slowly push that way. If you end attacked from two fronts pull back so the defense lines cross (not only they will likely not attack during the same turns, but they'd also have to fight each other if they do), and build even more so that you can handle the two fronts at the same time. Try to ensure you have enough local superiority in any every campaign, even if you have to pull back and give up a very promising front to shore another where they might be pushing you hard.

Let them overextend. Retreat damaged units. Try to keep units alive, so they heal well. And once you do hold the local superiority, push. Overwhelm their production so they can't recover from you bombarding them. And do remember that most faction's cities can only shoot to 2 hexes, so your heavy weapons team can do really nasty damage with little real opposition. City by city, take them down at this point.

[SanderPep]

Very Interesting reading!

[Dreepa]

What about the Basilisk?

[Felius]

Originally posted by Dreepa:

What about the Basilisk?

Knew I was forgetting someone!

Basilisk: Used to be outright obscene back when commissar skills could apply to vehicles. Since then has been weakened quite a bit. Nowadays while not useless by any mean it's not nearly as strong as it used to be and will not carry your army. With range 6 and indirect fire, it will be able to fire at something. Damage is rather mediocre though for its cost though to compensate

Specifically, early game, I recommend having one or two to attack units at full health multi-model units since it's a large blast weapon (or rather, with full models, if not full health), before finishing off with the frontliners if in range. Other uses include making sure retreating enemies get at least a bit of damage to hinder normal healing

Late in the game this is the unit to go to when you already have as many units as can effectively fight in the front line (plus some frontline units as reserves to be able to rotate out units as they get damaged). The key to its usage is frontage and line of sight: While, as mentioned before, its damage is not the greatest for the cost, a lot more basilisks can be in firing range than tanks or even flyers (and flyers do have generally better LoS due to their inherent elevation). This do face a similar issue as the marauder or the baneblade though: By the time you can do the heavily massed basilisks (plus the frontliners to spot and hold the line while the basilisks fire) you are likely to have already won in most cases.

[Ronin-XIII]

This was a good read. Are you planning on going over the other races to?

[Dreepa]

Cool, thanks for that added info.

I got two specific AM questions:

1. If the situation arises that you are able to push "rather early" on the enemy cities (enemy lost all of their units), what composition of units would you take to crack the city?

2. If the enemy plays Orks, on a small map, and heavily goes Heroes with insane melee capabilities (and also buys some items in the shops along the way) how to defend against that?


Thanks!

[Felius]

Originally posted by Ronin-XIII:

This was a good read. Are you planning on going over the other races to?

Maybe. Space Marines are very likely at least, the rest I will have to see and practice some before trying to write anything up.

Originally posted by Dreepa:

Cool, thanks for that added info.

I got two specific AM questions:

1. If the situation arises that you are able to push "rather early" on the enemy cities (enemy lost all of their units), what composition of units would you take to crack the city?

2. If the enemy plays Orks, on a small map, and heavily goes Heroes with insane melee capabilities (and also buys some items in the shops along the way) how to defend against that?

Thanks!

1 - Heavy Weapons Team supported by commissars can do some of the best damage against cities and can outrange said cities for most other races if you get the right angle. Guardsmen, sentinels and maybe chimeras can generally hold the line while the HWT do the killing. Don't forget the grenades and healing packs on the guardsmen. Frags can wreck havoc against enemy infantry (specially when the commissar is nearby, and with "bring them down" it's outright nasty), while sentinels are more survivable than one might think.

2. Ratling Snipers and Guardsmen supported by commissars. Heroes count as infantry, ratling snipers cause really good damage against those. Commissars give a lot of extra punch. And guardsmen hold the line and do some killing too. The Krak grenades are quite solid against heroes and the like. Again, commissars will add a lot of power to the unit too. And if some guardsmen units die, well, it's just 10 minerals and 10 food to make more. Later in the game, flyers.

On a couple small notes: You can generally use the same commissar for both HWT/snipers and guardsmen, although it might mean some guardsmen at point blank range. And for the other note, commissars can tank surprisingly well if you are willing to throw some influence into kitting it with +3 extra armor (at 120 influence for two items) and the +3hp/+100% HP Regen (a single item for 80 influence), specially once it hits level 6 and you can grab it's "ultimate" skill.

P.S. As an addendum to both cases you asked about, getting one tank commander (the first one is rather cheap, afterwards not so much) out is very feasible very early in the game, at tier 3 tech, and will be a welcome support in any battle line, giving it both a bit of extra punch and some hardness. Don't forget to kit it with items too: the +3HP/+100% HP Regen item makes it heal really fast (which is likely to be needed since at this point you'll likely not have another to rotate it with), the +2 armor item makes the tank have 11/12 armor (depending on your tech), and with all ranged attacks the +1 accuracy item for 40 influence is quite good too.

[Ronin-XIII]

Lol no pressure. Just always like to encourage posts like this. :)

[Khoran Gutsplitter]

Wyrdvane psykers?

[Felius]

Originally posted by Khoran Gutsplitter:

Wyrdvane psykers?

Similar to Primaris Psykers: Haven't used them enough to have formed more conclusive thoughts on the matter.

Some preliminary thoughts on both, but do take it with massive grains of salt; As mentioned, haven't used them enough for me to be confident in this:

Primaris: Haven't managed to make much use of it. The remote vision power is great, but that's about the only thing I'd use for more than self-defense. The attack powers can keep them alive if it comes to that, and the melee attack does give some sort of minor debuff on the enemy, but still, didn't managed to make great use of it. Keeping one to spot for the artillery is rather useful if you haven't got enough flyers and the like though. Just remember that it has infinite range and keep it out of harms way, either on the backlines helping protect the basilisks or even back at home base in case some enemy sneak through your forces.

Wyrdvane: More useful, but rather fragile. The misfortune power is great against beefy enemy units, such as cities, Gorknauts, Baneblades and the like, while the attack and movement debuff is better than nothing if you have a safe spot to park them. Still, kinda die really easily, so I generally keep them on a valkyrie, disembark to use misfortune when such type of enemy appears and embark back up if they manage not get killed.

Edit: Oh, and flamebreath is actually quite good, great killing potential, it's just that the wyrdvane psykers are too fragile and the power too short ranged to be a mainstay option. Maybe against a few specific enemies that pile up a lot of ranged damage reduction such as entrenched stealth suits? Still recommend valkyries or maybe chimeras to ferry them around though, of course. Your other option would likely be Ogryns for melee damage, which are admittedly more survivable but compete with other infantry for recruitment and have and cost food and minerals, with food to maintain, instead of food and energy, with energy to maintain. Depends on your economy I guess?

[TemplarGR]

You made one mistake. Guardsmen are not better at holding the line than Scions and later Ogryns. Obviously both are far better at attacking than Guardsmen, but they are also better at withstanding damage. As the game progresses, the enemies typically gain ways to obliterate guardsmen in one hit, thus they become obsolete and expensive. Keep in mind that there is a logistical cost in having them, not just resource cost. They cost you tactical space, movement space, transport space, etc. Scions and later Ogryns can withstand much more punishment from more advanced units, if in doubt, just compare them side by side.... Ogryns' shield helps them even more to withstand punishment. So if you need infantry to hold the line later in the game, you need Ogryns. They are not "useless", it is just that most of the time most players just stop producing much food, focusing on producing more ore/energy for vehicles and airforce instead, so it makes sense to just use food for city population and discard most infantry.

[Flip]

I wonder what the point of Tempestus Scionis is? They seem to have 1 more armor and a smidge more dmg that Guardsmen but less health, hardly seems worth the research to me? With the Hotshot lasgun and Infantry armor there seems very little difference unless I am missing something?

[Jey]

They have 2 armor more than Guardsmen, and have 4 AP (against.... 0).

Tempestus Scions are tougher than they look.
2 HP units with some armor can be extremely nasty to kill. (cF damage calculation formula)

Keep in mind that rather quickly your limiting factor is not so much food/ore but production.
After all, at some point it's reasonable that you have three or four barracks, maybe with an edict boosting them, or some bonus from tiles or loyalty.

Paying twice as much resources won't matter as much as spending turns.

Furthermore, you have to think about tile efficiency.
You don't have infinite tiles from which hitting the enemy. Having a faster unit (thanks to move through cover) that deals more damage per tile is worth it.


Should you forget Guardsmen as soon as you get Tempestus Scions? Most probably not.
But Tempestus Scions are definitely not worthless.

[TemplarGR]

Iffu is incorrect that the limiting factor is not resource production but production capacity. Most of the time in the game you are limited by resources and resource upkeep, not by unit production times. Unit production times may hurt you only if you keep losing all your units constantly and need replacements ASAP. Assuming you are not losing units often (and you shouldn't assuming you are using proper tactics), production capacity is unimportant and you can only get 3-4 barracks only later in the game anyway. Unless you rush them, which means you aren't going to have good resource production anyway. If you do the sensible thing and focus on more resource production and expansion, you won't have time for many barracks until late in the game. By that point, even using infantry altogether may be futile as even upgraded Ogryns can't stand vs enemy late game vehicles/airforce.

AM are particularly hit by this thing, since each branch of their units needs a different resource for making and upkeep, thus you need 3x the resource buildings than let's say Space Marines or Tyranids.It is different when tripling your resource production needs 3x buildings, instead of 9x.

[Jey]

thus you need 3x the resource buildings than let's say Space Marines or Tyranids.It is different when tripling your resource production needs 3x buildings, instead of 9x.

That's not correct maths.
You never look at "tripling" resources.

When Tyranids need 20 biomass/turn (8 for buildings, 8 for units and 4 upkeep), AM will need 12 ore and 8 food (8 ore for buildings, 4 ore/4 food for units, 4 food for upkeep).
Still the same cost = the same number of buildings.

Needing 2 ore extractor and one soylens farm is the same as needing 3 reclamation pool.

[Quinox]

I would agree with using Scions as a middle-late game replacement for more Guardsmen production, they hold up rather well and you do have to consider that having one less model with the same or more damage/accuracy is typically beneficial when it comes to blast or template type weapons.

They're not an outright replacement, but once you understand what fights they're better than Guardsmen at, you can rotate them through the front lines to be where they'll perform better. Ogryn by comparison are infantry tanks that can concuss and hold the line against infantry threats you want to deprioritize until another turn while the guns shoot elsewhere.

Neither are units I'd consider vital to Imperial Guard battle doctrine, but they can fill useful roles once you've gotten your core needs finished. That, or in the Ogryn's case they can be much more effective against infantry heavy factions. I forget offhand if they concuss against Tau battle suits.

I personally find Primaris Psykers to be a very desirable addition to the army. They're extremely heavy damage dealers that cut through heavy protection like a hot knife through butter. Much like a Commissar they greatly benefit from defensive items, but the simple items for +accuracy and +penetration also affects their abilities. This is well worth remembering as that is their bread and butter for attacks, not the staff. Which makes this hero very light on the pocket book for top performance.

I've used the Psyker in every game thus far, and they're an early, powerful tool to cut through hard targets, including cities. Unlike a Heavy Weapons Team, or Ratlings, they're not less accurate after moving and make for a great mobile response unit.

Anyway, great write up, the things you felt confident about I strongly agree with.