Necrons: what is the point of Bound Coalescent

[Yngve Göransson]

I just severely delayed the end of my campaign against AI today to research The Bound Coalescent research. It lets you merge a Ctan and an Obelisk into a "Tesseract Vault"

From what I can tell, all it did was give the HP of the Obelisk to the Ctan.
I lost all the 3 passives from both units
I lost 1 action because I no longer have two units
None of the powers nor the weapons were improved.

That seems like a severe downgrade, and it's a last tier research. Am I missing something?

[Cryostasis]

The c'tan powers gain plus 1 range for all of the casts and yeah it become one big hp pool but thats really it. Largest hp in the game and quite durable. but they can be used separately too. Honestly i would keep them separate unless the enemy you are going against can take down a ctan in 1 turn, then it might be worth to have a much larger hp pool and also turn the ctan into something heal-able by the spyders.

[Jey]

The C'tan powers gain 1 range AND double their attacks (but lose a tiny bit of accuracy).
It also gives you a fully healed units from two potentially damaged units.

[TemplarGR]

Yeah, Necrons lack a proper impressive late game super heavy. Obelisks, C'tan, or their merger, are not really that impressive.

[Yngve Göransson]

Originally posted by Iffu:

The C'tan powers gain 1 range AND double their attacks (but lose a tiny bit of accuracy).
It also gives you a fully healed units from two potentially damaged units.

Thank you! I had not noticed that. Range 3 and double attacks on the spells is DEFINITELY quite a big improvement. That more than doubles the effectiveness of the Ctan, which makes it quite worth it. And the fixing each other's HP right as they're quite hurt is also a very nice situational ability.

[Jey]

Originally posted by Ivan:

That more than doubles the effectiveness of the Ctan, which makes it quite worth it.

No because you lose accuracy (8->6) so it's slightly less than x2.

[tewall716]

a T-Vault will win 1v1 vs every unit in the game except a baneblade (assuming that the T-Vault gets hit first and has to retaliate), but even then you can just spend influence to cheat out of that if you wanted too, so why would they need something better?

[Questionable]

Originally posted by tewall716:

a T-Vault will win 1v1 vs every unit in the game except a baneblade (assuming that the T-Vault gets hit first and has to retaliate), but even then you can just spend influence to cheat out of that if you wanted too, so why would they need something better?

How often does a T-Vault ever get first hit though, especially compared to things like Scorpions? They're incredibly slow. And 1v1 anything at that late point of the game is not really something I think happens very often.

[tewall716]

What I meant was that if they attack second in every fight only a baneblade will beat them.

[Questionable]

Oh I misunderstood

[TemplarGR]

Originally posted by tewall716:

a T-Vault will win 1v1 vs every unit in the game except a baneblade (assuming that the T-Vault gets hit first and has to retaliate), but even then you can just spend influence to cheat out of that if you wanted too, so why would they need something better?

Obviously, those 2 units are some of the most expensive in the game, they have immense costs, you can get 2 superheavies for the cost for other factions, per each tesseract vault.

Also, i haven't tested it properly but i think a Scythed Hierodule, which has similar costs, could certainly go toe to toe with a T-vault. The Hierodule has half the hitpoints and -2 armor, but has +33% feel no pain damage reduction, has 2 hp regen, his attacks are better vs armor, he gets another free stomp attack per turn, a hammer of wrath per 3 turns. Plus he is more mobile, especially when upgraded. He could easily escape, regen, and re-enter the fight. You could heal the T-vault using influence, but it is unfair to compare it in this way, because by then the cost becomes even more astronomical.

[Yngve Göransson]

Originally posted by Iffu:

Originally posted by Ivan:

That more than doubles the effectiveness of the Ctan, which makes it quite worth it.

No because you lose accuracy (8->6) so it's slightly less than x2.

Right. But accuracy can be buffed, right? Like from the Stalker thing.

But really what made me say more than 2x is the extra range. In my (limited I admit) experience, in a frontline situation a unit that can do solid damage at 3 range is invaluable.

So, more damage (not x2 but lets say x1.5) and +1 range makes this thing a really good deal to merge. I no longer feel like I'm losing something.