Is Gladius a 4X game?

[corinsentry820]

Based on the direction the game is going and what is said in the games discord it appears the game is moving towards not only a 1x game, but is being balanced towards a RTS style "rush" game. I hope that this isn't the direction the game continues to move towards.

[~HaY~]

Originally posted by corinsentry820:

Based on the direction the game is going and what is said in the games discord it appears the game is moving towards not only a 1x game, but is being balanced towards a RTS style "rush" game. I hope that this isn't the direction the game continues to move towards.

I see that you have 2 seperate questions (1 in the title, 1 in the body).

1) is Gladius a 4x game

Yes, Warhammer 40k Gladius has all the elements of a 4x game.

Which is Explore, Expand, Exploit, Exterminate.

2) The game is gearing toward rush style.

Whether the game is heading toward rush style has nothing to do with the game being a 4x game.

Not sure what you are refering to with the 1x statement (which of the Xs does it only have, and how are the other Xs not present?)

I always felt this game is a turn based version of am RTS since war is the only option so rush is a valid option as long as it is defensible and will eventually branch out into different strategies.

What exactly is the issue you are experiencing, any specific scenarios you want cover?

You may want to change your title to "Is this game heading into rush style gameplay" so to not not to confuse new comer.

[corinsentry820]

I can see your points. It is a 4x in those terms, not exactly what people (or at least myself) think of in a 4x game, though. 1x was said, in that, the game is really has very little of the other "x's" besides exterminate. The other 3 are being left aside over the extermination.
Yes, sadly; I think Gladius is becoming or already is just a turn based RTS. It could be so much more.
So. though I know. I don't have all the answers more voices in the process would help the game. The less people talk about what they would like the game to be the more it becomes what only the most vocal want, which also might be what many want. I don't know what everyone wants. I just didn't want a turn based RTS out of Gladius.
Currently, it seems the direction is to balance the game based on early PVP rush tactics. In the game to leads to a book, barracks, hero build, depending on the faction. You may need to build resources for some factions to achieve this currently, but I bet that with the direction that the game is going that won't last too long, we'll end up with cookie cutter lower units and build orders.
I'd like to see to game go a different direction, though that might not be the popular view. If people want the game to be a turned based RTS, I can be fine with that.
I'd prefer to see changes to the environment and construction costs so that the RTS rush aspects would be very hard to achieve (though they will always find a way). Examples would be for an increased cost to barracks after the first (might make that number based on faction). Orks and Nids should be faster lower tier unit builds. So, you could set it that they pay extra after "x" number of barracks. It would be a balancing issue still.
To be honest, what I would like, will never happen at this point. I used to love the game then I joined the discord and saw the direction and after trying to give my opinions realized what was what. I most likely will not be happy with what is going come down the pipe.
Sometimes you have to just cut your loses and move on :)

[Bane]

With being able to slow down production and influence what things are available in the enviroment from creatures, webway gates, necron tombs and such even if they gear it toward rush I believe you can slow it down to your preferred pace.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by corinsentry820:

I'd like to see to game go a different direction, though that might not be the popular view. If people want the game to be a turned based RTS, I can be fine with that.

I would strongly suspect that your view IS emphatically the "popular view.'

You have to constantly keep in mind that it is the PvP crowd who - though a tiny percentage of the player-base - tend to influence the devs most in games of this nature. This is because the PvP crowd - who are by nature competitive and aggressive - tend to be the loudest. And as the Western proverb goes, it is the wheel that squeaks the most that gets greased.

Or perhaps more fittingly, as the Korean proverb goes: It is the baby who cries most who gets fed most.

Edit: I recall a similar conflict between the PvE v. PvP community on the Age of Wonders III forum (the dev forum). The PvP loudmouths insisted that the majority of the player-base are PvP-oriented, and that the PvE carebearers were an insignificant minority. So the devs finally put up a poll, and it was like 80 to 20 percent - overwhelmingly in favor of the PvE players.

But it doesn't matter, because it is almost always the hardcore, "committed" minority who gets what they want in human affairs.

[TemplarGR]

I agree with the OP somewhat. It seems to me the discord vocal community influences the developer team a little too much to focus balancing the game under conditions that the silent majority who play the game don't enjoy. Obviously the PVPers prefer fast games but 4X games lend themselves poorly to fast games and people like myself enjoy full blown late tech wars of attrition with huge armies of many factions on large maps, etc. We don't play multiplayer because that kind of play is not suited for multiplayer, but in my opinion Gladius is more fun that way.

[Thrax]

Originally posted by ~HaY~:

Originally posted by corinsentry820:

Based on the direction the game is going and what is said in the games discord it appears the game is moving towards not only a 1x game, but is being balanced towards a RTS style "rush" game. I hope that this isn't the direction the game continues to move towards.

I see that you have 2 seperate questions (1 in the title, 1 in the body).

1) is Gladius a 4x game

Yes, Warhammer 40k Gladius has all the elements of a 4x game.

Which is Explore, Expand, Exploit, Exterminate.

2) The game is gearing toward rush style.

Whether the game is heading toward rush style has nothing to do with the game being a 4x game.

Not sure what you are refering to with the 1x statement (which of the Xs does it only have, and how are the other Xs not present?)

I always felt this game is a turn based version of am RTS since war is the only option so rush is a valid option as long as it is defensible and will eventually branch out into different strategies.

What exactly is the issue you are experiencing, any specific scenarios you want cover?

You may want to change your title to "Is this game heading into rush style gameplay" so to not not to confuse new comer.

Wrong.

It's a 5X game.

ExterminatusExterminatusExterminatusExterminatusExterminatus

[Outis]

It is a wargame wrapped in 4X clothing.

Yes, it is becoming a Turn-Based RTS game..I.E the 'clicks per minute' advantage is removed but rushing is the primary 'strategy'

[Goblin]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by corinsentry820:

I'd like to see to game go a different direction, though that might not be the popular view. If people want the game to be a turned based RTS, I can be fine with that.

Or perhaps more fittingly, as the Korean proverb goes: It is the baby who cries most who gets fed most.

Majority of games are made for casuals. The few "hardcore" games always get flooded with people complaining the game is too hard and demanding devs make it easier.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Golin:

Originally posted by Lampros:

Or perhaps more fittingly, as the Korean proverb goes: It is the baby who cries most who gets fed most.

Majority of games are made for casuals. The few "hardcore" games always get flooded with people complaining the game is too hard and demanding devs make it easier.

That is indeed true, too. But beta testers and the most prolific posters tend to be hardcore players. And they inevitably tend to be the most influential.

[TemplarGR]

I find the terms "casuals" and "hardcores" a little stupid to be honest. I am tired from the competitive scene in MOBAs abusing these terms. Video games are not rocket science, everyone is a casual. You are not solving nuclear physics here. This is entertainment.

Yes, some people spend more time on a video game than others, but this doesn't always mean they understand the game better. Want me to bring you a list of people who have played a MOBA hardcore for a decade and suck at it? LOL. People can have many limitations that prevent their understanding/performance of the game (doesn't mean they are stupid), and some other people may only play occasionally but understand/play a game better. It is very variable.

As for Gladius, making it more rush-friendly is not about making it more casual or more hardcore. It is about facilitating more multiplayer, since that is the bane of 4X games, they don't lend themselves to multiplayer well due to the massive time investment for all players involved. Personally i disagree with that approach in all 4X games, the 4X devs are often trying desperately to fit their games into the multiplayer scene even if their game suffers for it. Gladius is best enjoyed when multiple mid and high tier units are on the battlefield dishing out damage to each other. That way you get to enjoy all the intricacies of the units and the tactics, which are the meat of this game. If you turn it into a fast-game few units affair, it loses all the charm, you might as well play Starcraft II or Dawn of War.

Perhaps a good way to make multiplayer feasible and worthwhile, would be to make a scenario mode that places opponents at already later stages of the game on pre-designed maps and lets them start the big fight instantly instead of having to set it up.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by TemplarGR:

As for Gladius, making it more rush-friendly is not about making it more casual or more hardcore. It is about facilitating more multiplayer, since that is the bane of 4X games, they don't lend themselves to multiplayer well due to the massive time investment for all players involved. Personally i disagree with that approach in all 4X games, the 4X devs are often trying desperately to fit their games into the multiplayer scene even if their game suffers for it. Gladius is best enjoyed when multiple mid and high tier units are on the battlefield dishing out damage to each other. That way you get to enjoy all the intricacies of the units and the tactics, which are the meat of this game. If you turn it into a fast-game few units affair, it loses all the charm, you might as well play Starcraft II or Dawn of War.

This is well put. I agree with it in almost all respects.

[adozu]

charm and appeal are entirely subjective concepts. i personally find lategame battles (t8+) tedious.

[GreenBeanN1]

The arsenal of weapons and traits are quite impressive and that's where you have to dive in to get tactical advantage (and of course rushing to the strongest T8-10 unit).

But other than that there is not much decision making. No weather, terrain*, warp, night-day cycle effects. The world of Gladius is quite static (other than removing wire weed, forests and imperial ruins (where the last two are actually similar only the texture is different).
*Except for rivers and forests/imperial ruins that hinder movement.

[easytarget]

It's certainly not a strategy game.

[gollwyn]

I find that you can easily adjust the settings to achieve your desired experience. Simply turn up the wildlife and run few sides on a larger map to have a longer experience (if you want higher tech units, run a big map with fast research but tons of wildlife to slow movement and rush). If you want a pvp experience that is like an RTS, small map, less wildlife. I think Gladius can support both experiences.