Necrons waaay too OP

[Alexander452]

Every single time i encounter the Necrons they simply just steamroll through my units and i can't manage to kill barely any of theirs, as they will simply retreat their wounded and then proceed to instakill my units in the next turn.

What the ♥♥♥♥ am i doing wrong ?
or are they just generally unfun to play against?

[Jey]

If we could know if you play vs AI or another player, if you play on medium difficulty or higher, and maybe even the faction you prefer to use, we may be able to provide help.

Perhaps you could even tell us what Necron unit causes you trouble, and what unit you try to field against it?

[Mmm]

They are indeed strong for novices because of hp regeneration, both playing against them and as them. Restoring hp quickly means a lot if you don't play optimally. All races have some kind of op features that you should capitalize on.

[Alexander452]

Originally posted by RoboEmperor:

Originally posted by Alexander452:

What the ♥♥♥♥ am i doing wrong ?

Originally posted by Iffu:

If we could know if you play vs AI or another player, if you play on medium difficulty or higher, and maybe even the faction you prefer to use, we may be able to provide help.

Perhaps you could even tell us what Necron unit causes you trouble, and what unit you try to field against it?

I'd go into more detail but you haven't mentioned what your race is so I can't.

i'm playing the Orks, because i thought it would fit nicely with Orktober, i've only played Orks so far.

And i'm playing against Normal AI, which i imagine is medium.

It's usually the plehtora of Obelisks, Monoliths and Transcendent C'tan's that wipe my units and they have so many of them.

[Jey]

As Orks you need to capitalize on a strong early game.
If you face Obelisks and C'tan you're doing it wrong.

First of all, the rule common to all factions : Get your second city as quick as you can.
Your second city must be placed before turn 30.

Then the Orks can easily rely on a lot of boys, a few tankbustas and very importantly, one warboss (with items! Beware, that will cost a lot of influence, so your Waaagh! may be low level), one painboy (to reduce the upkeep of your infantry + the cyborks implants) and one weirdboy (for research, +attacks and the teleportation skill).

A warboss with items (Dusk Blade, Adamantium Vest, Armaplas Bracers, Zoat Hide Jerkin, Concealed Weapon System and either an Axe of Blind Fury or a blade of Lazaerek) will be able to deal with most enemies by himself. The Dusk Blade make sure you have a constant regeneration, the Axe will allow you to slaughter infantry (it basically doubles your damage against infantry), while the Blade will allow you to pierce tanks, depending on what you face.

Meanwhile boys can take care of the infantry or take overwatches or finish stuff that the warboss can't quite deal with alone.


If you can't win with just that, you need to improve the efficiency of your build.

If you still need to keep the game going for longer, then you can add Meganobz (to deal with tough tanks, like the Doomsday ark) and Gorkanauts (who are incredibly tough and powerful, but will require a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of ore and your eco may not be able to support them).

But keep in mind that a well-geared Warboss will do miracles.

[zimbrax]

Originally posted by Iffu:

If you face Obelisks and C'tan you're doing it wrong.

So the solution is win early or don´t win at all? That doesn´t sound very balanced. Every faction should have ways to deal/counter other units, even late game units.

In fact some people enjoy playing long games and don´t want to rush others... it's not fair that necrons just win in the long games.

If you are telling me that theres no way to counter obelisks and C'tan then maybe they should get nerfed.

EDIT: I still don´t know why they decrease the cost of necron repairs from 80 to 60. That combined with the tech that removes the limit of repairs per unit makes their units immortal unless you one shot them and good luck one shoting an obelisk.

[Jey]

Originally posted by zimbrax:

So the solution is win early or don´t win at all?

No. Against AI, you can win no matter what. But Orks are a faction with a weak lategame. If you are not a decent player (and obviously you're not, you started recently), it's hard to win with it in the lategame. (Though, it's also hard to win in the early game if you're not skilled, so eh).

That said, you'll note that I gave you a way out if you really want to play late.
The Gorkanaut is extremely powerful. While your eco will probably have difficulty supporting it, if you use it against powerful units, you can certainly gain enough ore to sustain the production.

The Squiggoth (if you reaaaaaaaaaally go for the long game) is also incredibly scary. Maybe not against the Obelisk since you can't Stomp it I think, but against everything else.
Anyway, a Squiggoth with the Cybork Implants lvl 3 from the Painboy is pretty tough, and can deal really decent damage against your enemies.

[glythe]

Originally posted by Alexander452:

What am i doing wrong ?

I took a quick peek at your playtime and noticed you have less than 6 hours played. I will suggest that you likely are not optimizing your play yet.

I have an idea you grew slowly and probably the AI got a tech advantage over you. Or maybe you are using anti infantry units to kill armor units. Things like that can make it seem like the enemy is invincible (although the necrons are sometimes really good at feeling hard to kill).

[TheDoc]

Why didn't anyone mentioned about Dakkajets? IMO they are the best unit in entire Orkz roster. I used to be push to total defence (almost lost my game) but then I've built couple of Dakkajets and I repushed enemy and won a game.

[play midnight suns]

One of my first games I got completely destroyed by an Ork AI that had basically only built Dakkajets. It was horrific. The ork airforce screamed out of the fog, they covered the known world. I got tied up fighting another Space Marine AI and they rolled over us both. Waagh. :(

Necrons are fine to play against, you just need armour piercing. Haven't played as orks yet but I'd assume tankbustas are pretty useful since they do a lot of damage to me. Also I've never seen the AI build endgame units so I don't know what you're doing, do you refuse to explore the map or something? :P I've only seen obelisks and c'tans when either I built them or when they spawn from the endgame quests.

[Corseth]

In pvp scenarios, Necrons are one of the bottom-middle factions in power level.

As I've posted in other threads, the reason why the AI necron seems rougher than the rest is BECAUSE the AI is dumb.

Necrons have many downsides, but one of their upsides is fairly resilient units with fast healing.

The AI will suicide its units into unwinnable situations, then try to pull them back.

With factions with weak but cheap units, they do not survive the dumb suicide.

With factions with strong, expensive units, they survive but then are stuck healing for quite a while.

Basically, the Necron AI does the same dumb things - but its units survive because they are strong/expensive, and then they are healed more rapidly than say, a Space Marine AI. This is compounded because you can pay influence to heal Necron units; the cost is REALLY high, so for a human player this gets prohibitive really fast, but AI gets free resources making this more feasible, and it otherwise doesn't utilize influence well.

For most of the AI's, by the time you encounter them they've repeatedly lost their entire army just to roving wildlife because of this behavior. This makes them feel much weaker than the Necron AI, which doesn't suffer this.

As for Orks vs Necrons; Orks have a strong early game, Necrons a better late game. This doesn't mean you have to WIN versus Necrons early on, but if you fail to use your stronger early game to at least establish an economic advantage, then you will struggle later.

[Jey]

Originally posted by Corseth:

but AI gets free resources

I'd like to point out that it's untrue, unless you play at higher difficulty.
A medium AI have exactly the same amount of ressource as you (well they may have different terrains/outpost, but you get what I mean), and an "Impossible" AI will have the same amount of ressource as you if you also play on "Impossible" level.

If the necron AI can afford healing, that's because it doesn't seem to use Rapid Rise, nor does it buy items, so it has excess influence it can't really use (it can't make unlimited heroes, obviously...). Which you did say by saying it doesn't use influence well :P.

[BenShinobi]

Originally posted by Corseth:

In pvp scenarios, Necrons are one of the bottom-middle factions in power level.

Basically, the Necron AI does the same dumb things - but its units survive because they are strong/expensive, and then they are healed more rapidly than say, a Space Marine AI. This is compounded because you can pay influence to heal Necron units; the cost is REALLY high, so for a human player this gets prohibitive really fast, but AI gets free resources making this more feasible, and it otherwise doesn't utilize influence well.

I think this sums up the difficulty of AI Necrons perfectly. The way AI players heal is ridiculously inefficient as they often wont even move to their bases or outposts for the healing boost. Sometimes they will just never get round to fully healing high HP units because of this. So an AI player just getting constant healing goes a long way to negating this huge handicap of AI behaviour. It's a shame that the end result is to make necrons a frustrating opponent if you're used to playing against the other factions, as really this should be seen as a fault in all the other factions and AI that desperately needs to learn to utilise the game mechanics more efficiently.

If they could start properly using those transport units I see some of them spamming that would be great too :P

[Corseth]

That's probably another factor - the AI tends to spam the first vehicle unit like crazy for most factions, but these aren't always combat units, they're often a transport or barely-armed scout. So you'll see like a dozen Tau Pirahna running around and that's just a huge waste of money, for example. But Tomb Blades are a legit threat to many targets.

[glythe]

Originally posted by Corseth:

But Tomb Blades are a legit threat to many targets.

Not so much after multiple price increases and Jink nerf. The Necros have a giant hole in their roster that is filled by Heavy Destroyer spam. What are Vehicles before the Doom Ark?

Unless a Tomb Blade wipes you out - you will be able to kill it on your turn. They are glass machine guns 'great' at killing T1 infantry.

[Corseth]

Yeah, but they're still more dangerous than Pirahnas, is sorta the note there on how the AI's bad decision making process is a little more survivable with Necrons than other factions. We're not talking which units are good or bad, we're talking which bad AI strategies still have some teeth to them vs newer players based on faction.