What is this with all the different damage reduction....

[Nagumo]

So, there is for example the cryptic from the necrons who gets the -50% damage reduction from the Hero Perk. But he has the -17% damage reduction from "ignoring injuries", too

Injuries are what? And does the different damage reduction Perks are working together? Is it all about giving the same thing just other names, so in the end he has -67% damage reduction?

How is the calculation of all the different combat variables like aiming and damage. Is the environment from Wood calculated before or after the damage reduction perks?

[His Majesty, the Lord of Space]

they stack multiplicatively

so a Cryptek hero in a forest will have 0.5 (hero dmg reduction) * 0.83 (feel no pain) * 0.5 (forest vs range) which totals to 0.2075 damage taken total aka 79.25% damage reduction versus ranged damage.

now if a unit has ranged damage with the trait "ignores ranged damage reduction" or a unit does melee damage, it would instead have only 0.5 * 0.83 = 0.415 damage taken aka 58.5% damage reduction.

things like "ignoring injuries" or "terminator armor" are just flavor descriptions for lore purposes. Only a few have actual mechanics for only working on certain damage types, such as the aformentioned "Ranged Damage Reduction" or "Witchfire Damage Reduction"

since everything is multiplicative order doesn't matter

[Nagumo]

Cool! Thx for the answers.

I have more questions but in searching for a good wiki i haven't found any. How is the calculation of damage, number of attacks and accuracy working?

Yesterday i was quite surprised that my Predator was doing only 0,8 points of damage against a group of Kroot Hounds staying in a forest. The Laser does 8 points and the forest is coming with a 0.5 multiplicator against range. From 4 to 0,8 is a long way. Don't misread this, it is really cool that you have to switch units to fight other ones. In the described example my tactical squad with 5 attacks of 1,9 killed the hounds nearly with one shot.
Accuracy of both units was quite the same, so there have to be other things/numbers to have an impact on the outcome.

[Soulheaven]

Originally posted by Nagumo:

Cool! Thx for the answers.

I have more questions but in searching for a good wiki i haven't found any. How is the calculation of damage, number of attacks and accuracy working?

Yesterday i was quite surprised that my Predator was doing only 0,8 points of damage against a group of Kroot Hounds staying in a forest. The Laser does 8 points and the forest is coming with a 0.5 multiplicator against range. From 4 to 0,8 is a long way. Don't misread this, it is really cool that you have to switch units to fight other ones. In the described example my tactical squad with 5 attacks of 1,9 killed the hounds nearly with one shot.
Accuracy of both units was quite the same, so there have to be other things/numbers to have an impact on the outcome.

Thats because number of hits. The tank shots only once, hitting one hound and overkilling it. High dmg weapons with low number of attacks (and no blast) are better suited for attacking big guys

[His Majesty, the Lord of Space]

yes forgot to mention, but damage is capped at the maximum health of a model within a unit before all other damage reductions are applied, such as accuracy, and before damage multipliers like number of attacks.

what this means is that when your tank fires at a kroot hound, which iirc have 2 hp per model (max hp / max # of models in unit) that 8 damage is first capped to 2. Then accuracy is applied, so if you have anything less than 12 (100%) you will be doing less than 2 damage now. Then any other appropriate damage reductions are applied. Then I believe that final damage is multiplied by the number of attacks your unit has for that weapon, in the case of your tank it's only 1 attack so you don't even do enough to kill 1 model in your first attack.

another thing that exists is the Blast trait. There are actually several different kinds of this Blast trait with different names and different levels of effects, you can actually see the data for them in the Traits section of the compendium in game.
Basically what it does is multiply your final damage value based on the number of models currently in the unit you're attacking, up to a certain limit. The different types of Blast will differ from each other by this limit. The basic and lowest level "Blast" trait is a +1.5x modifier, meaning it will do up to 2.5x damage based on the additional number of models. Each model above 1 adds +1 to the modifier (in this case it's capped at +1.5 so you get the maximum bonus at 3 or more models.)

If you look in the compendium iirc Apocalyptic Blast is one of the higher ones, having a cap at like +7.5x so units with that trait will just utterly destroy large groups of infantry.

[Nagumo]

Thx again! Wow the mechanics are imo quite cool and traceable (after reading your explanations ^^)

[echo4]

I echo the thanks. Without understanding that raw damage is capped at max health of a model, I was very confused as to where the numbers were coming from. Now I can reproduce all the numbers I'm seeing.

Basically first you calculate raw damage:

Raw Damage = Damage * # of attacks
Capped raw damage = MIN(max health of 1 model, Raw Damage)
Apply accuracy = Capped raw damage * (100-acc %) / 100
Apply damage reduction = Above * (100-DR) / 100
Apply other effects, like 33%

So for a concrete example, my tanks attack at 9.6 with 6 armor penetration against 5 units with 20 total health with 9 armor. The tanks have 83% accuracy

Raw damage = 9.6
Capped raw damage = 4
Apply accuracy = 3.32
Apply DR (24% = 8 * (9 - 6) ) = 2.52
Apply forest (33%) = 1.69

Which explains why my tanks were doing such low damage.


Also, it is so great that there is no RNG in this game.

[Bizzo]

Originally posted by Nagumo:

Thx again! Wow the mechanics are imo quite cool and traceable (after reading your explanations ^^)

Its cool till you find some units in the game for some factions are good to great at killing everything they encounter and then get spammed.

[Opti]

Originally posted by echo4:

I echo the thanks. Without understanding that raw damage is capped at max health of a model, I was very confused as to where the numbers were coming from. Now I can reproduce all the numbers I'm seeing.

Basically first you calculate raw damage:

Raw Damage = Damage * # of attacks
Capped raw damage = MIN(max health of 1 model, Raw Damage)
Apply accuracy = Capped raw damage * (100-acc %) / 100
Apply damage reduction = Above * (100-DR) / 100
Apply other effects, like 33%

So for a concrete example, my tanks attack at 9.6 with 6 armor penetration against 5 units with 20 total health with 9 armor. The tanks have 83% accuracy

Raw damage = 9.6
Capped raw damage = 4
Apply accuracy = 3.32
Apply DR (24% = 8 * (9 - 6) ) = 2.52
Apply forest (33%) = 1.69

Which explains why my tanks were doing such low damage.


Also, it is so great that there is no RNG in this game.

I know it's an extremely old thread, but why would would 33% (or whatever) forest dmg reduction be applied separately from regular damage reduction calculation? This seems to be contradictory to His Majesty, the Lord of Space's post above?

[ulzgoroth]

Originally posted by Opti:

Originally posted by echo4:

I echo the thanks. Without understanding that raw damage is capped at max health of a model, I was very confused as to where the numbers were coming from. Now I can reproduce all the numbers I'm seeing.

Basically first you calculate raw damage:

Raw Damage = Damage * # of attacks
Capped raw damage = MIN(max health of 1 model, Raw Damage)
Apply accuracy = Capped raw damage * (100-acc %) / 100
Apply damage reduction = Above * (100-DR) / 100
Apply other effects, like 33%

So for a concrete example, my tanks attack at 9.6 with 6 armor penetration against 5 units with 20 total health with 9 armor. The tanks have 83% accuracy

Raw damage = 9.6
Capped raw damage = 4
Apply accuracy = 3.32
Apply DR (24% = 8 * (9 - 6) ) = 2.52
Apply forest (33%) = 1.69

Which explains why my tanks were doing such low damage.


Also, it is so great that there is no RNG in this game.

I know it's an extremely old thread, but why would would 33% (or whatever) forest dmg reduction be applied separately from regular damage reduction calculation? This seems to be contradictory to His Majesty, the Lord of Space's post above?

I think echo4 was using 'DR' to refer to the effect of armor, as opposed to other damage reductions.

Since damage reduction effects are multiplicative, they're commutative and associative - you can present the damage reductions as all being combined into one multiplier or as all being applied sequentially in any order, it's the same either way.

[Edmon]

I will allow the necro if only because this is a very technical thread and detail has been added. In the future though, please make new threads.