Why Astra is so weak ?

[Narzalion]

Hello i would like to know why with 3 basilisks and 1 tank commander i can t even kill a simple unit of devastator who got 12 hp ? Why with 4 troop of IG i can t take down a simple trrop of SM wich was 1/2 life? And why the SM got more amor than a f..... tank ?

You will say the astra is more numerous. But if i need 8 units to kill one, what is the point to only have 3 or 4 more units than the ennemie ? Astra need time to reach his tanks unit but what should i do if a SM rush me turn 20 and steal all my out post ?

[Ty Cobb]

It's all about weapon armor penetration. Get the Commisar hero, get Bring It Down. Learn it, know it, live it.

And dont forget to get krak grenades.

[Narzalion]

i know but in pvp the player rush you and i don t find wich tech i should rush :/. if i rush comissar i can t rush tech priest to create new city etc etc. And i find it s hard to pex the comissar if you let him near the basilisk.

[Warhunter]

probably have to rush commisar get the armor pierce ability with a few squads of guardsmen/heavy weapons

basilisks are good for the inital blow but cant follow up because their damage scales on how many models are in that unit (more models = more damage for blast weapons)

with the armor piercing buff guardsmen can do a good chunk of damage vs space marines. krak and frag grenades will also do a good chunk of damage as well (frag are blast so only use as the first attacks to get the most out of them)

no point rushing tech priest if you end up dieing severals turns after you get techpriests researched

[Emperor Fooble]

Guardsmen are my fav tier one troop unit. 2 squads of them will laugh at a single unit of tactical marines. Unless against necrons with a lot of spare influence they are superb in the early game.
2 squads cost lest to recruit, same upcost and train about the same time, with the edict, to recruit as a single tactical/warrior squad.
With frag and krak grenades, you can deal serious damage to tactical marines. Frag first, then finish with krak. Any serious damage you take, including from frag grenades, just heal with medkits.

Tank commanders are fantastic. They are more of a damage sponge, than a damage dealer, but the roll over them ability can one hit kill many squads once its level 2/3.

Dont be afraid to move your basilisks with your army, adjacent to the commissar in the back row. They deal more damage at range 2, due to having a heavy bolter. And at 26hp they can take a few hits.
Unless you make a mistake its highly unlikely that they will come into range of stationary devastators, and if said devastators move in to set up a killshot, you can either drive off (and still bombard them), or take them out with your regular troops.

I find Hydras and guardsmen tend to beat back just about anything until late game. Add in commissars and tech priests and its a scary blob that is good vs just about anything due to its range, resilience and relatively low cost.

[Narzalion]

well if i understand my only mistake was to not create a comissar fast. I will try to rush him next time.

[Mythrayn]

Last night, four Guardsmen, two Heavy Weapons, two Scout walkers, and a commisar with bring it down did a grand total of about 4 damage to an SM captain. Said captain was standing on a desert tile with no forest, ruins or rocks.

AM is EXTREMELY weak in the early game, as in, weak to the point of absurdity.

Same Commisar was killed in two turns by one Assault Marines unit and a Tacitcal Marine unit firing from two tiles away.

[Slitherine_Iain]

If your heavy weapons are stationary and you have have bring it down they will do a lot more damage than that. It also depends what level of Commissar you have. At level 1 its a nice bonus, at level 3 its really lethal. Plus add in the Commissars accuracy bonus and heavy weapons are extremely powerful.

[Mythrayn]

Originally posted by Slitherine_Iain:

If your heavy weapons are stationary and you have have bring it down they will do a lot more damage than that. It also depends what level of Commissar you have. At level 1 its a nice bonus, at level 3 its really lethal. Plus add in the Commissars accuracy bonus and heavy weapons are extremely powerful.

One of them moved, one didn't. The Guardsmen were doing 0.3 dmg if I remember correctly, the most damage came from the stationary HW which did 2.3 dmg.

[Slitherine_Iain]

Yes there is a hard counter system. Do things right and you'll get heavily rewarded. Do it wrong and you'll get punished. Your heavy weapons are going to do the damage so just use your other units to keep him stuck in combat while your HW kill him off. Make sure to use bring it down when your HW are stationary for best effect. Even scout walkers with bring it down hurt the captain. Make sure your key units are getting the bonus and dont worry about the guardsmen - it helps a bit but far more important to get the bonus on your strike units.

[Mythrayn]

That's great and all, but the captain wasn't alone :) As it stands in the early game, AM just can't bring enough firepower to the table. If you happen to run into SM or Necro before you've had a chance to go three tech trees deep, you're pretty much screwed.

That being said, i do enjoy the AM late game, and after the lasgun buff from that later tech, Guards actually become pretty decent.

[Slitherine_Iain]

I really disagree. Take out whatever is supporting him as while he is a tank he's not that great at dealing damage. Ignore him till he's on his own and then take him down.

[kane]

The IG are best holding the line early game then when you are ready attack and they will hold that line pretty easy.

[Godwin]

Astra Militarum isn't that weak. They have a harder early-game than others, but the strongest lategame.

I rather enjoy the fact that factions are so diverse. Yes, a very early rush from Space Marines is rather bad, as AM really needs a lot of tech before they can begin to flourish. That's true.

What I found really helpful is to research Frag grenades as your first research and medikits soon as well, something I had avoided since I was looking ahead past Guardsmen, but that I have now learned not to do.

Then get Heavy Weapons Squads (they can also use grenades!) and make sure to fire them when they've not moved.

Also as others said: Commissar!

The Tank Commander honestly doesn't help tanks that much imo, even at high level. He is very tanky (lol, pun), and his melee special is devastating, but the (at max) 30% damage buff is actually not that noticeable for me.

As for Basilisks, they sure are nice, but I might even try skipping them next time in favor of a rush towards Thunderbolts.

EDIT: above post also makes a good point: Play very defensively with AM. Don't scout too much and definitely not too far out from your main force. Until you're ready to roll out of course :D

[Narzalion]

well i m ok to ignore the captain but when he come near my troops, take 2 damge from the preshot of all my armie, with his frag kill 70% of one unit AND then all his friend come what can i do ?

If a SM wait me in a forest how i m supposed to make them moove? If one of my unit enter to try to get vision it s instakilled.

Last night i tried to takedown a devastator team wich where in a ruin. 3 basilisk and 1 tank commender after he was only 1/2 life but at his turn the apoticaires hide behind just full healed his unit. The SM are just too tanky to be defated by astra. The only way i would see to do something would be to allow basilisk( or all artillerie units) to fire on a tile even if i don t have vision on it. just to prevent an armie to just wait you til it cornered all your city.

Play def is nice but if you can t controle outpost in early game SM will just be more and more stronger.

[Godefroy de Outremere]

Leman Russes lack firepower for sure, devastators have twice the firepower of a leman Russ. They need vanquisher or Executioner Cannons options