Obelisk vs Tesseract Vault

[Ozpa]

Hi all.

Wanted to get people's opinions about these 2, because I don't feel like it's worth merging the units. The trade-off is you get a quite significant HP buff but the dmg stays the same and you lose a C'Tan which is a very strong hitter by itself. Also, you lose the interesting passives both have.

Do you guys merge them? Do you think it's worth it?

[Jean-Luc]

No, it doesn't seem worth it. You lose so much firepower by essentially trading 2 actions for 1. The Obelisk itself is already really tanky while the C'tan can attack from behind it and even has that 3 range spell if it really needs to stay safe (not that the C'tan is easy to kill to begin with). It also has a strong melee attack which can be really handy (vs cities for example). Merging causes so many of the two units' attacks to end up unused and wasted.

[[OG] Brandoid]

the unit itself looks bad ass but otherwise if youre seriously playing then no it isnt really worth, at least i dont think so

[Mr.Kill]

A few of the spells get slightly more attacks when in vault mode. But aside from that yeah it's really not worth. Necrons have a lot of late game advantages in the form of monolith and the obelisk so really you don't need a vault.

[postpaleo]

Haven't done it yet, but wonder if it gets an speed/distance move advantage? It might make it worth it for me, if it does. C'Tan is wonderful, as far as movement, so hard to see an improvement, unless it had a kickbutt skill.

[Ozpa]

Originally posted by postpaleo:

Haven't done it yet, but wonder if it gets an speed/distance move advantage? It might make it worth it for me, if it does. C'Tan is wonderful, as far as movement, so hard to see an improvement, unless it had a kickbutt skill.

Hi, the armor/speed is the same.

[Corseth]

The spells double the number of hits, and add 1 to range. Problem is, as others pointed out, when you merge you lose the ability to do both and the Tesla Spheres are already stronger than the VAULT's spells (except at high amounts of armor and Viridian Lightning), so you'll mostly want to use those, and the Vault can't attack and cast on the same turn. The C'Tan's spells are half as strong as the Vault, but it can do them at the same time the Obelisk shoots, and the Tesla Spheres are identical on both the Vault and Obelisk.

Just crunching the numbers, an issue is the C'tan's abilities are less than half as strong as the TEsla Spheres on the Obelisk. The C'Tan is a cheaper unit, but the spells may be underpowered by comparison anyway. Then when you combine them, the double power spell is still weaker than the Spheres on anything but the lightning, vs very heavy armor.

Merging 2 expensive, late-game units is a tricky concept balance-wise because you reduce your action economy and you bump up against practical caps on damage if you try to compensate for that with increased output. It's not a way to protect a squishy caster because C'tan are just not squishy, and it's not a way to give ranged options to the Obelisk because the Obelisk already has range.

Honestly without buffing the spells to craziness, you'd probably need it to get to shoot and cast on the same turn to be worth it.

[Ozpa]

Originally posted by Corseth:

The spells double the number of hits, and add 1 to range. Problem is, as others pointed out, when you merge you lose the ability to do both and the Tesla Spheres are already stronger than the VAULT's spells (except at high amounts of armor and Viridian Lightning), so you'll mostly want to use those, and the Vault can't attack and cast on the same turn. The C'Tan's spells are half as strong as the Vault, but it can do them at the same time the Obelisk shoots, and the Tesla Spheres are identical on both the Vault and Obelisk.

Just crunching the numbers, an issue is the C'tan's abilities are less than half as strong as the TEsla Spheres on the Obelisk. The C'Tan is a cheaper unit, but the spells may be underpowered by comparison anyway. Then when you combine them, the double power spell is still weaker than the Spheres on anything but the lightning, vs very heavy armor.

Merging 2 expensive, late-game units is a tricky concept balance-wise because you reduce your action economy and you bump up against practical caps on damage if you try to compensate for that with increased output. It's not a way to protect a squishy caster because C'tan are just not squishy, and it's not a way to give ranged options to the Obelisk because the Obelisk already has range.

Honestly without buffing the spells to craziness, you'd probably need it to get to shoot and cast on the same turn to be worth it.

That was interesting to read, thanks.
I agree about with the last sentence :)