Tau are great looking with interesting mechanics. But they need balancing ASAP.

[steynfw]

Bought it the second it came out, cause I like Gladius. Played the Tau on very easy, to see all the tech and plan a tech path. That didnt go so well.

They have absolutely 0 firepower. none at all. There wasnt a single unit in my arsenal (except Storm Surge) that could kill a Space Marine Hunter tank. The XV whatever stealth suites are seriously tanky, but their antitank weapons dont do anything. Many of the guys who have toggle weapons, lose damage on the toggle (against groups or single target, i checked). Only one that seems to be working right are the Pathfinders, but get offset by like 6 hp or something, which is fair. However, without a GhostKeel or Storm Surge, which are mid-end game stuff, you cant kill any armor. Your third best unit, is by far, the Scout Drones. Yes, you read it right, your scout drones (that you get free) pack more punch than your mid level TANKS and bots. Then in Tier 10 ( :/ ), you can get 50% invul dmg red mods, which are great. So you wont die that easily. But youll still lose, cause you cant dmg anything. Youre grenades are pathetic. You dont nade to half the damage of 1 battelion for 1 turn, you nade to kill a whole squad, like everyone else does it. Even with half accuracy enemies, they still oneshot your infantry. So, its rather a firecracker that screams "come at me, I wana die".

I started a second game, vs 8 normal Tau AI (all allies) and I played as Tyranids on a medium map. Cleared the game in 60 rounds with ONLY tyranid warriors. I lost 2 battlions the entire game. I had a harder time vs the neutral imperal fortress and castalan robots.

The Utopia mechanic is utterly broken. Only allowed 1 type of building otherwise you lose loyalty, in a game that heavily punishes negative loyalty. They cant multi-city as hard a nids cause they get their loyalty skills only from Cadre Fireblade (which is RIDICULOUSLY weak, 5 range less than 1 damage shot), and only at lvl6, whereas nids and spacemarines get the same or larger bonus, much sooner. Now the big problem comes in that they are as expensive or even more so in influence than spacemarines or necrons. Yet you get punished for more than 1 influence building. Then you can buy population, which is a really strong ability on any faction EXCEPT the Tau. More pops, mean more buildings, means less of everything. I aint waiting 20 turns for a Storm Surge to build. Not kwl. Needs a serious rethink on that, in my opinion.

Tau's entire shtick at the moment is to be "overwwatch gods" and drones. But they lack firepower even with it and the morale punishment for lost drones forces you to be careful with drones, which is exactly not what they are used for. All you need to wint, is simply run in and kill them. Or send some lictors or scout bikes. If I remember my game correctly, only the StormSurge can one shot a squad of Tactical Space Marines, which are TIER 1.

All in all, great concepts, but needs some serious balancing, more than any other DLC or unit that came before. But these guys have done a great job so far. So while I am negative that it was released in such a state, I still have hope, cause you have a good trackrecord with this game.

Tonight I will test out if I can beat 8 of them (only normal) with just scout bikers. See if I can lose more than 2 battelions this time.

EDIT: Just finished my scout biker's (SB) only game. Was extremely easy the first 40 rounds, and moderately easy until 67. I spammed Armories and research at first, move to influence later to do Orbital Drops.
Sidenote: SB dont get armour from infantry armor upgrade, but can be healed by apothecaries, they use The flesh is weak, and dont use Machine Spirit heal thing.

My data vs Scout Bikers: I captured data as I encountered the units and tried to set up for minimum buffs (like dmg reduction) on both sides. SB have about 12 HP

Vs Firewarriors: Range 2: Take 3ish dmg, deal 2.6 dmg. Range 1: Take 5.8, deal death.

Vs Pathfinders: Range 2: Take 4.7, deal 2. Range 1: Take 10.7, deal death.

Vs Recon Drones: Range 2: Take 4.7, deal 2. Range 1: Take 4.7, deal death.

Vs Piranha (first vehicle): Range 2: Take 2.4, deal 3. Range 1: Take 2.4, deal 9.6.

Vs Fireblade: Range 2: Take 1, deal 1.5. Range 1: Take 1.9, deal 4.8 (kill with Hammer of Wrath).

Vs Gun Drone: Range 2: deal 3. Range 1: Take 3.5, deal death

VX8 Battlesuit (best unit I faced but still weak for its tier and cost): Range 2: Take 7.8, deal 2. Range 1: Take death, deal 5.8.

Commander: Range 2: Take 7.9, deal 2.4. Range 1: Take 7.9, deal 3.4

XV25 Stealth Ballelsuit (most tanky unit): 2 Range: Take 6, deal 1. Range 1: Take 6, deal 2.5.

I lost 5 SB overall. My greatest enemy was the 17% dmg return which forced me to heal more between base popping and the Base when my scout bikers were in the open without Jink.

Bases fell at turns: 22, 29, 34, 41, 41, 43, 43, 51, 51, 52, 53, 53, 55, 58, 60, 61, 62, 67

Also a bug: The AI can use the negative loyalty ability through the fog of war.

[Jean-Luc]

I won a game on hard with Tau. Large map, 6 players total.

You just need to use their tools. Use Commanders' offensive buffs, use the markerlights, get the Kill Team bonus on battlesuits that have it, use drones to distract enemies and protect yourself, use Builder Drones to heal (don't rely just on Ethereals), get the support systems (especially the accuracy one).

The "increase number of attacks on ranged" is currently bugged on some skills like Volley Fire, not sure about the overwatch bonuses, so the Fireblade is underperforming but his ability to destroy morale (Break Composure) is awesome and doesn't cost an action to use. Units with broken morale take 50% more dmg and just crumble.

Once the armor pen for missiles and flamers comes out Crisis Suits can punch out almost anything except the super heavy stuff. Broadsides lose accuracy if they move which needs to be taken into account but are very strong. Riptides paired with Hammerheads crush things.

Sure, fighting tanks with just Fire Warriors and Pathfinders isn't great, you need to bring out your own mechanization to the field and the Tau rely a lot on teamwork but you can destroy enemy armor just fine, more than fine even.

I can see the AI do poorly with Tau though since their actions are a bit more elaborate, using the drones right, the buffs, making sure everything is positioned right. AI's propensity for just throwing things at you and using buffs at random hurts the Tau more than other races.

The Utopia mechanic isn't that big of a deal (not sure about higher difficulties though). You can still get multiple copies of a building without problems, you just can't super spam. As your economy grows get more and more Fireblades (I had 4 in my hard game by the end), they'll start out at a higher level later on, to keep the loyalty up, buy Tantalising Icons to generate more influence and you'll be fine.

[Tchey]

My main issue is with Energy.

Unless i’ve missed something, no building provide it (except the generic one, so i build 2 of them per city), while we have other means to gather other resources from factory building.

We can buy from Influ, but it’s something i’m not fond of this.

[steynfw]

Jean-Luc eredeti hozzászólása:

I won a game on hard with Tau. Large map, 6 players total.

You just need to use their tools. Use Commanders' offensive buffs, use the markerlights, get the Kill Team bonus on battlesuits that have it, use drones to distract enemies and protect yourself, use Builder Drones to heal (don't rely just on Ethereals), get the support systems (especially the accuracy one).

The "increase number of attacks on ranged" is currently bugged on some skills like Volley Fire, not sure about the overwatch bonuses, so the Fireblade is underperforming but his ability to destroy morale (Break Composure) is awesome and doesn't cost an action to use. Units with broken morale take 50% more dmg and just crumble.

Once the armor pen for missiles and flamers comes out Crisis Suits can punch out almost anything except the super heavy stuff. Broadsides lose accuracy if they move which needs to be taken into account but are very strong. Riptides paired with Hammerheads crush things.

Sure, fighting tanks with just Fire Warriors and Pathfinders isn't great, you need to bring out your own mechanization to the field and the Tau rely a lot on teamwork but you can destroy enemy armor just fine, more than fine even.

I can see the AI do poorly with Tau though since their actions are a bit more elaborate, using the drones right, the buffs, making sure everything is positioned right. AI's propensity for just throwing things at you and using buffs at random hurts the Tau more than other races.

The Utopia mechanic isn't that big of a deal (not sure about higher difficulties though). You can still get multiple copies of a building without problems, you just can't super spam. As your economy grows get more and more Fireblades (I had 4 in my hard game by the end), they'll start out at a higher level later on, to keep the loyalty up, buy Tantalising Icons to generate more influence and you'll be fine.

Ill try what you suggested. I added an EDIT to my post, regarding my scout bikers only playthrough. I think the Tau are broken at the moment. Ill give your ideas a shot

[Atoastydoofus]

There firing line setups are somewhat annoying to set up properly. I feel the AM still beat the tau at what there supposed to do best. Ranged firing lines. I.e Weapon teams and commissar and basilisk teams + commissar tank commander + lemans. There setup is easier to pull off without all the drones taking up tons of space and only buffing 1 unit for a single turn.

[adder007usa]

The thing to remember about the Tau is that they are weak individually, but together they can stack abilities like crazy. A few things I've discovered:

1. Do not underestimate drones and marker lights. Drones can move and attack the same turn they're summoned, and they are also excellent for triggering overwatch attacks so that your fragile troops don't get shot to hell before they can do the same

2 Emp grenades are excellent against cities

3. Fireblade hero: His normal attack is terrible. His cooldown 3 ranged attack is okay. His ability to sap enemy morale is fantastic. If he's not in a position to use that or his cooldown attack, use him as a marker light, and you'll see your damage increase significantly. This is particularly true if you can get a turn where your gunline doesn't have to move; he can relocate as needed to give his bonus to those who held still.

4. The tau commander is a beast. His weapons are good against almost anything, and his tactical abilities are HUGE, affecting everything within 3 hexes of him. All 3 of them are amazing in the right circumstances. About to take a beating from an AM firing line? Use Kau'yon. About to begin your attack? Use Rin'yon. Enemy have something that just absolutely needs to die, such as a doomsday ark, or their city center? Use mont'ka.

5. Crisis suits work exponentially better at short range; their flamers ignore cover, which should not be underestimated. Spawn drones, use them to draw the overwatch attack, then fly in and roast em.

6. Utopia: At the beginning, focus on getting one of everything. This will give you a buffer of loyalty for later. I've gotten my loyalty up to over 20 with this and the fireblade. This is right about when you're looking to expand, do so, and use your new city to start doubling up. By this point, you should also have the loyalty structure (totem), so you'll be able to afford a few duplicates by now. Make sure that whatever you pick is a good one. I find it's also incredibly important to place your cities next to resource multipliers; Focus on power and influence, so promethium pipelines and/or jokaero camps are extremely valuable. Power, because it's hard to get, and influence for your ability to trade and assimilate auxiliaries.

7. Ethereal. This hero is near broken at high levels. His ultimate ability allows adjacent units two attacks. His healing ability affects everything around him AND himself. The additional attacks he can give out as a free action is just gravy on top. His only downside is how fragile and weak he is himself.

8. Half of the tau army isn't affected by wireweed. Use this to your advantage.

[Tchey]

So far i quite like T’au. I lose, but i like the idea of them.

The issue with sending drones to catch overwatch is then, they die, and you get hit by morale loss.

Would be much more acceptable if drones would not impact moral, or if they do, they should last until death (not 3 turns) and lock down the summon so you can’t summon more than one per unit.

I manage to hold my corner, by i struggle to push. After a while, the map is painted to the couple of factions left, and i’m submerged like 4vs1.

[Apollysis]

I won my first game as Tau on a large map with one of every faction. They are pretty strong but you need to use combined units and the drones. They are a lot stronger when you use the overwatch so let them come to you, wipe them out then move ahead and set up another defensive line and just rinse and repeat.

[Pokemastuh]

I played on normal, didn't have any issues with them power wise. Fought off necrons, marines, and another tau army. The saving grace was the xv25 stealth suits, xv8 crisis suits, and eventually the riptide. The ghostkeel was pretty good too, but i only found that out after going hard with the riptide, I didn't really touch the vehicles or fliers, though i did convert a lot of neutrals to my side. Mostly just for building up troop number quickly in the field, but also to take away an enemy source of damage. fire warriors were a little disappointing damage and grenade wise, didn't touch pathfinders. The storm surge was a death sentence for anyone in range. All I can say is really hide your battle lines in forests as best you can, use drones to bait overwatch fire, and never stop pouring it on till a target is dead or you're forced to fall back.

Fittingly enough, the tau seem to be pretty good at dismantling enemy commanders and morale. I had food problems though, so having at least two cities, one industrial, another agricultural, were cornerstones to success.

[DanOramA]

As Jean-Luc & Adder007usa said is just perfect. Been playing T'au non-stop since the DLC came out (mind you I only play against AI, period.) but they are no way weak. Squishy, yes that said use drones like the other said. Cost no action to get one out and all infantry + heroes get the drones when you research it. Crisis suit is amazing, especially when you get up close for the flamer.

Both Ghostkeel or whatever it's name is and Riptide are really good IMO. I use both a lot since the damage stacks up fast. I barely use the tanks tbh, they ARE nice but there is something special with flying in with a lot of mecha units :P

A side note; I think the ion weapons you toggle are only good against big groups of enemies. Should be atleast 5+ else it's not worth it. Don't know how accurate that is but that's the only time I use it. Great for the start since you can toggle your cities range 3 weapon also :P

[steynfw]

I played the Tau again with the recommendation I saw here. What I found was quite supprising.

You absolutely have to rush xv8 battlesuits. Research as hard as you can, and get the Ghostkeel with at least 3 or 4 of its buildings. Ghostkeel is the saving grace of this faction along with the speed boost mod. It gives +1 speed and ignores enemy zone of control. I built 3 cities. Original producing research and ghostkeels (stopped making xv8's once the ghostkeels came out). Second, was ore and energy. Third was builders and ore influence.

Because of the excellent movement speed they have and ignoreing zone of control, they can get into good positions quickly, and exit battle to go and heal whenever they want. I didnt go drones, as they are more harmful that anything else because of the gigantic morale drop when one dies.

Ghostkeels out perform Hammerheads against heavy targets AND infantry, and cost less if you consider the punishing effect of Utopia.

I pumped out a ghostkeel every round, and with the builder healing them for 30% every round, I never lost a single one. They arent as good as the xv8 battlesuit vs infantry groups, but they are cheap so I just use 2 and all infantry person groups die.

Their aircraft are average. The first one, the fighter, is ok. Nothing special. Like all other units (except the base and pathfinders) the alternate fire is broken and doesnt much more dmg vs groups. The ghostkeel loses damage with its alt fire against every type of enemy I faced. The bomber is seriously weak, dont build that ♥♥♥♥ ever.

Ill try again with them, see if its possible to use something else than waiting for tier 4 to produce my first unit.

[Atoastydoofus]

steynfw eredeti hozzászólása:

I played the Tau again with the recommendation I saw here. What I found was quite supprising.

You absolutely have to rush xv8 battlesuits. Research as hard as you can, and get the Ghostkeel with at least 3 or 4 of its buildings. Ghostkeel is the saving grace of this faction along with the speed boost mod. It gives +1 speed and ignores enemy zone of control. I built 3 cities. Original producing research and ghostkeels (stopped making xv8's once the ghostkeels came out). Second, was ore and energy. Third was builders and ore influence.

Because of the excellent movement speed they have and ignoreing zone of control, they can get into good positions quickly, and exit battle to go and heal whenever they want. I didnt go drones, as they are more harmful that anything else because of the gigantic morale drop when one dies.

Ghostkeels out perform Hammerheads against heavy targets AND infantry, and cost less if you consider the punishing effect of Utopia.

I pumped out a ghostkeel every round, and with the builder healing them for 30% every round, I never lost a single one. They arent as good as the xv8 battlesuit vs infantry groups, but they are cheap so I just use 2 and all infantry person groups die.

Their aircraft are average. The first one, the fighter, is ok. Nothing special. Like all other units (except the base and pathfinders) the alternate fire is broken and doesnt much more dmg vs groups. The ghostkeel loses damage with its alt fire against every type of enemy I faced. The bomber is seriously weak, dont build that ♥♥♥♥ ever.

Ill try again with them, see if its possible to use something else than waiting for tier 4 to produce my first unit.

I find hammerheads fine because of their 3+ range, Then once I get to riptides it's all over.

[Questionable]

I dunno what on earth you're talking about cause Tau has been the (second) easiest faction to play and I completely mop the floor with the AI once I hit mid-game, utopia & the fireblades give you OODLES of loyalty which gives you insane resource output and the battlesuits are world-beaters.
You also don't need to 100% respect the utopia system you can very easily get away with building multiple resource buildings, *especially* once you start getting fireblades to level 6 and I strongly recommend you get 2-3 of them at least and keep them safe.
Usually by the end of the game I'll have 3-4 cities with 15-20 loyalty each combining Utopia, Siren Casters and the Fireblades 'Unity' ability.

The alt-fire of all the Tau units exists for clearing out low-armor chaff units like Guardsmen & Orks.

Hammerheads are your first 3-range siege units and can be gotten a tech level earlier than battlesuits and make great fire-support for your battlesuits once you get them.

If you're ever struggling with resources or city growth you can just *buy* resources and pops with some cheap researches and the influence needed for buying stuff is super easy to get because ALL of your production structures produce influence as well.

Veterancy is pretty important for the Tau, they get a lot out of their experience levels with the boosts to weapon damage, keep your Firewarriors alive and they'll outperform most other T1 infantry, plus the markerlight ability makes them potent support units for helping wipe out enemies in cover.

[steynfw]

@Atoastydoofus I leave out hammerheads cause its an extra building, research and they cost 80 ore. I rush Ghostkeels, cause they cost only 30ore 30 energy and out perform the riptides. Pop speedboost on them and the 33% feel no pain, and a shield drone, then even an obelisk or baneblade dont do more than 5 damage.

[steynfw]

@ホールドタイト

The alt-fire as it stands is broken. Doesnt work for most units. On the ghost keel for example, you lose about half of your damage if you alt fire against groups. Only pathfinders truly benefit from it.

If im struggling with resources, a 2:1 trade is not something I can afford, cause I have to get fireblades. 15-20 loyalty in endgame isnt bad, but their economy at that point is behind everyone elses even a lower loyalty.

Im with you on the veterency. They need it badly. With the fireblades being as soft as a sponge, its kinda hard to level them. Have to keep them safe literally always. The firewarriors, even with the fireblade (in its current broken state) will absolutely not out perform half the t1's in the game. They cant drone, cause you lose morale like its nobodies business, and marines, chaos marines and gargolyes and necrons are stronger on paper and on the field. If you want infantry, pathfinders are quite good, but doesnt come close to tyranid warriors for t2 champs

[methrandeir]

Not sure what folks are doing, but I'm on my 2nd game, this one on hard and I have had zero issues with loyalty and I build multiples of the resource buildings in every city I make. What I don't do is build duplicate recruitment buildings. I limit myself to one infantry, one land vehicle, one monstrous creature building and one aircraft building per city at most. I usually don't build each in every city. Most cities I've built in a game so far is 4 - on a large map. My loyalty stays above 40+ or 50+ in each city. First game I only bought one Fireblade. In my 2nd game, I haven't bought one yet and see no need to do so.

I am finding the Tau to be VERY powerful if used in combined arms teams.

Use the Kroot and Vespid throughout your campaign - level them up and you will learn to love them a lot.

Use the marker lights and drones from your Firewarriors, use the Pathfinders overcharged shots, and I recommend using Commanders to lead each battle group you form with at least one etherial backing them up for healing.

Builder drones heal vehicles and battle suits. Etherial heals work on everything - just group your wounded around one and heal up to 6 units at once.

The standard battlesuit squad (with flamers) will one shot many infantry once leveled up.

The pathfinders overcharge shot will one shot Enslavers once leveled.

Ghostkeel battle suits are strong against hard targets and heroes.

Stealth suit infantry is great against robots, ambuls, buildings and other high armor targets.

BUT none of these are worth a darn if used alone. Used in a combined arms team they are quite amazing.

Tau flaws currently:

In my current hard level game, I can not research the Stormsurge - not sure why.

The Tau lack any method to move long distances across the map.