Arena Mode

[UnusualAce]

Is anyone else finding the one hit stun-dumb-dance annoying as all hell.(Assuming you have access to the beta)

Something is really wrong if a Grunt, A GRUNT (It happens with every enemy but that's not as fun to imagine) of all things can literately smack the ♥♥♥♥♥ into you and you can't do anything, I mean anything, aside from either destroy your space bar or mash right click into oblivion. I figure that a skill would kill this phenomenon, I don't know I'm simply to dumb-founded that it could even be a possibility when you're warring 20 kilograms of pure high grade steel. Now if they had a weapon I can see it happening every now and then but not every time I get it by anything other then a bullet.

I've not played with story mode at all, so I don't know if it suffers from the same Grunt-stun-fist. Story mode never really grabbed me, but that's just me not the game.

Also, the veritably of arena levels is a pretty big disappointment. But that could steam from the Grunt-stun issue.

I do enjoy the new character creator, very neat, beside the fact that one branch is entirely useless when you gain nothing from it(I mean point wise not skill wise). And with what levels I have played the whole system event thing isn't used, that's likely not the case as it took some serious time to develop it.

[Prancer_Slenderfriend]

story mode has some of the worst enemies in terms of randomly getting stunlocked, you'll get to see them in arenas after the end of arena mode's missions and its gonna be awful

[alibabba3000]

Yah especially in the beginning when you arent fast enough to block or counter in time.

[UnusualAce]

It's not that you're not fast enough to block it it's that even if you are it doesn't matter. Because as soon as your surrounded by more then one person you're screwed, and if you break the flow of fists it doesn't make them stop, making it infuriating as nothing will make them stop unless they decide to stop and have a genital conversation. I have died,many times, because I was surrounded and couldn't do anything.

It has completely ruined the game for me, and ya guns are a solution but their so expensive(when compared to the amount of money gain from a round) that it becomes very impractical. So the games forces you to play only one way, which isn't a very fun way to play in my view.

The way the stun worked in previous builds work very well, in tell you were at the end of a branch and could just bend the game mechanics to your will. Equipping a ninjato(The smallest ninja sword) with a maxed out melee branch could just rip though any living thing dumb enough to look at you. You just became a blender that was powered by hate and rage, it was awesome.

Also the way zombies work is also a big disappointment, they used to be threatening, they commanded your attention and one wrong move could kill you in a flash. You felt a sense of unease, which is now lost because their only threatening when they jump at you and by then your trigger finger is dead and can't throw them off.

[Phoenix King Sherman]

Glad I'm not the only one getting butt-mangled by literally any enemy as soon as they gang up on you. Assuming it is indeed how the game works instead of all of us being bad at it. (which is still a possibility), kinda sucks that the only way to be aggressive in melee is to pray that the enemy is dumb enough to come at you one at a time. Otherwise all momentum is just gone.

Melee combat that relies on the player being heavily defensive and reactive doesn't friggin work if you have to fight a bunch at once. A better solution would be that only some enemies, like, the highest tier non boss ones, were the only ones you needed to dance around with. And you didn't need to pay too much attention to the fodder unless there was just a million of them.

[Prancer_Slenderfriend]

its been like this for literally two and a half years and they STILL havent fixed some enemies having infinite combos, even when you have enough tac bar to BREAK (in some cases like Berzerkers with power tools, even if you BREAK)

[UnusualAce]

"some enemies having infinite combos" This is the key word, some. Not all, it never really happened to me and when it did it felt justified to a degree. How it works currently is just inexcusable, when any enemy, no matter how weak, can beat you in to the Twilight Zone and nothing good ever happens their.

A better way would be to make it based on your stats like strength or endurance(I think this was how it was done, I could just be remembering an unarmed skill), allowing a smooth difficulty that still made you feel the impact of melee or unarmed without being a major flaw. But this would still allow for the occasional enemy-mind that is hell bent on your destruction, but the occasional one would keep you on your toes so I view it as a good thing.

Another thing I think is very odd is that you can't break a melee weapon with your fists.(You used to be able to, I don't know if it's a thing now, I stopped playing the update with about 15-ish hours in) Why? If you pick the Experiment story it has a +2 unarmed damage and has a proficiency in dexterity and a "useless" gun branch. Making you far more inclined to decline the enemy that's intruding your personal space with a quick throw of the closest sharp object. So a lot of the time your unarmed and can't defend your self if more then one decides to gift you the book of Mormon, because their too nice to say no to. Again pushing you to use guns that cost you a floating fist and a ♥♥♥♥ to get it.

[Rib]

I know what you mean, was playing through the main story yesterday and if I got stunned I literally had to use BOTH. HANDS. to spam my space bar to get out of the stun-lock. I really hope they fix this, I'm trying to level up unarmed in the tutorial and as soon as I get to wave 5 I get curb-stomped in under a minute unless I throw a single punch and run away immediately. I've noticed they removed those perks to resist hits from enemies as well, so it's either this is what they are intending us to deal with, or the perks are bugged and they just removed them to fix them. I'm really hoping its the latter.

[UnusualAce]

Well, I think they are going to make us deal with it unless we scream about it really loud. Or if it is a bug it would be a pretty big bug to just ignore and then release into the wild. To hunt us down and make us pay for trying to play.

The both hand play is something that shouldn't be used in normal game play further adding to the fact that the combat doesn't work the way they want it to. And needs to be patched, so I wouldn't expect that to change in tell 3-4 months if I'm being an optimistic-lieist.

[Phoenix King Sherman]

Another potential source of hope is mods. I've got a laundry list of balances and features I'd want to see implemented. Granted I'm not expecting a modding scene as active as say XCOM or a mainline Bethsoft title, there's some hope there. Otherwise, I'm actually not too sure how much of the current combat mechanics i can stomach.

[UnusualAce]

I was hoping that the SleepWalker program would be an entrance to the Steam-Workshop. It would be a very cool and effective idea if they pursued it. And that you could switch between your people and improve them in that system without the fear of death or expand the system to allow you to bring them in with you and "hack" your way in something. Although the program mimics the old flash game it doesn't really try too. It's more like a place holder then anything else.

I already can't stomach it, I only played 15 hours as was mentioned previously. I don't care to play anything that causes anger and frustration when it will lead nowhere. I might stab story mode but I'm not going to hold my tongue.

[Uncle Funkle]

The latest patch we've introduced makes the enemy hitstun much more forgiving.

-Added: You can now block melee attacks with unarmed without the appropriate skill. You'll still take full damage, but you won't go into Stun-lock. Same goes for breaking out of it.
-Tweak: Breaking out of Stun-lock by spending Tac-Bar (Press Space) has a much more forgiving timing window. That's what spending Tac-Bar gets you.
-Tweak: VR Training Buddies can no longer Stun-lock you.

Let us know how you get on with those changes. You guys' feedback means a hell of a lot to us

[SXC-150]

Ekhem...how about making weak enemies NOT stunning at all which would be based on Strength, Endurance and armor to determine a "weak" enemy and give ability to dodge melee attacks like before using TAC-BAR...(you can dodge bullets so why not blades ffs)
Look it's nice to favor skill when playing but you're making Cube World bad choices.
I will buy this game but i will stick to that earlier beta version of the game because it's just fun to play IF you still gonna make such decissions...

[Lennybolt7]

Thanks for getting back to us Uncle Funkle. It means a lot to see feedback taken seriously.


As for the discussion, here's my thoughts:
Yeah Honestly I think stuns should be based on the stats of the character and not just something that always happens. It's just not fun to have to deal with constant stunlocks and having to repeatedly mash buttons to avoid them. That isn't what I'd expect when I think of Madness Combat. I like a lot of other changes like how the guns and ammo system makes the game far more fast paced and less about conserving ammo, but the stunlocking kills that flow.

A system that uses stats instead would cause you to really feel the strength of your character increase as they can't be pushed around so easy as they grow in power over the game. Tougher enemies wouldn't be given an instant death sentence if you get the first hit on them either. As right now the first person to hit I find is almost always the winner, so i can kill anything I shouldn't be able to kill so long as I strike first.


I understand that could be considered a major change and a bit of a leap of faith but a lot of people HATE stunlocks and once this releases that's probaly another wave of complaints over this.

[SXC-150]

Originally posted by Lenny1013:

Thanks for getting back to us Uncle Funkle. It means a lot to see feedback taken seriously.


As for the discussion, here's my thoughts:
Yeah Honestly I think stuns should be based on the stats of the character and not just something that always happens. It's just not fun to have to deal with constant stunlocks and having to repeatedly mash buttons to avoid them. That isn't what I'd expect when I think of Madness Combat. I like a lot of other changes like how the guns and ammo system makes the game far more fast paced and less about conserving ammo, but the stunlocking kills that flow.

A system that uses stats instead would cause you to really feel the strength of your character increase as they can't be pushed around so easy as they grow in power over the game. Tougher enemies wouldn't be given an instant death sentence if you get the first hit on them either. As right now the first person to hit I find is almost always the winner, so i can kill anything I shouldn't be able to kill so long as I strike first.


I understand that could be considered a major change and a bit of a leap of faith but a lot of people HATE stunlocks and once this releases that's probaly another wave of complaints over this.

I like such idea but i would also add that powerfull enemies like A.T.P. Soldat would be resistant to a weaker player stuns so that THERE we should actually use blocks and parryies to defeat them (untill the player is powerful enough to break their stun-lock resistance) and also ability to stun would not be just calculated by just Strength and Endurance but also weight and damage type of the melee weapon the player or enemy is holding where stun resistance would be sum of the Strength, Endurance and armor the player or enemy have.

[Rib]

Alright, so I tried it out, and first off I have to say I have to agree with Lenny1013 and SXC-150 here. You did make it easier to break out of the stunlocks yes, but the frequency of the stunlocks and the widerange of enemies that can stunlock you is too much to handle. One on one battles are doable but that almost never happens. I'd REALLY like to see our character's stats incorporated into whether or not we get stunlocked, or maybe a return of the old skills that protected you from stun for 1-3 hits?

Either way thanks for responding to us!