Worth converting to Christianity from Scandinavian Gods?

[Zifuu]

I'm playing a high reputation benevolent kind of guy, but I don't think he's above converting for purely cynical reasons. Solid information on the exact mechanical changes seem sparse.

1) I have selected my future political marriage - the Christian daughter of the Upstanding Ealdorman of Cantwaraburh (Canterbury) However, I cant seem to get permission to court despite high relation, due to religious differences. Is it simply down to luck or is it a set impassible road block?

2) On recruiting: There's plenty of information to know that religion effects recruitment However, I've found little to no concrete numbers on just how significant the effect is. I am also using the Balance Mod 9, which further alters recruitment (but its changes are extremely well documented, many thanks for that!).

• Converting should increase the number of Saxon recruits I get from the towns of Wessex? Correct?
  
• And, am I also correct in believing that converting will increase the number of Norse recruits from the Christian towns of Jorvik & Bebbanburh (despite the recruits themselves being Pagan), whilst reducing the numbers from Ribe & Tunsburg?

3) Are there any other drastic affects I aught to know about? Will it prevent me from recruiting Pagan lords in the future? Any benefits from staying Pagan (besides cool factor, which remains high)?

Thank you in advance for any information given.

[d12ddd]

Well, historically vikings converted after succesful invasions and some time. That's why Britain is still a Christian country(accurate at the time of posting this, thank you mass immigration). Don't know much about recruiting numbers but I can tell you for sure that you want to have fiefs with your religion. I don't know all the debuffs from religious tension, but they seem rather significant. Also, you don't have to convert to Christianity, you can just build Pagan shrines everywhere(though build a mead hall first to avoid rebellions). Btw, VC Balance Mod 10 is out, you might want to update since it's save compatible.

[Zifuu]

Originally posted by d12ddd:

That's why Britain is still a Christian country(accurate at the time of posting this, thank you mass immigration).

Hey now, don't be starting with that BS here, I'm not interested.

Thanks for the tip on Balance Mod 10, but I'm holding off until the full release thread appears. I like to read all documentation of a mod before installing it, just so I understand what changes its making.

[Hooded Horse]

Hi Zifuu,

1) Yes, you need to convert to get a father’s permission. However, after he grants permission, you can actually convert back immediately—he won’t mind and you can progress through the wedding as normal.

2) Since you are using Balance Mod, religion has a very large effect on recruitment. First, this is because the recruiting formulas were changed to make religion ratio multiplicative on almost all other factors, only leaving local relations with the center unaffected, or lordship. Meaning, in Balance Mod, the only ways for an opposite religion character to ensure large numbers of recruits in a particular connection to the center involved—either make the town like you by doing quests, or become its lord. Both of those effects have been boosted in Balance Mod, especially lordship, so they can be pretty effective, but general factors like high renown will not help your recruiting much if you are in an opposite religion fief (my reasoning is that being a famed pagan warrior won’t do much to impress the local Christians, and the reverse, but strong local relationships or a lord’s rights should have just as much effect).

Second, if you started your game on Balance Mod 9.0 or after, then starting religion levels are very polarized. If you started your game on 8.0 or earlier, this wouldn’t be true, as startin religion levels are determined at new game start. Anyway, so the ratio I mentioned earlier is the ratio of pagan faith to Christian faith, or the reverse, and as I mentioned Balance Mod makes it multiply against almost all recruiting factors (as opposed to just a few in vanilla). So it is very important what that ratio is. Now, in vanilla, a pagan settlement might start something like 70 pagan 30 Christian, and a Christian settlement might be 65 Christian 35 pagan, all within a random range, and generally defined worldwide whether Northumbria or Ireland. So basically every town in Ireland or Norway was a fair mix of religions in vanilla, so even when the ratio was applied, it wasn’t so dramatic. In Balance Mod 9 or after, starting religion are more like 99 pagan 1 Christian in Denmark, or 96 Christian 4 pagan in Ireland, again a bit random, with levels in places like Northumbria set carefully individually to reflect the influx of pagans (generally, with castles more pagan in Northumbria, and the villages and towns still heavily Christian, but with a few pagan villages representing more extensive settlement, basically Northumbria is more like the vanilla ratios).

So the result is, in Balance Mod, if you are opposite religion then high renown, leadership, etc, will all work very well to recruit people of your faith, and not work well at all to recruit opposite religions. Instead the only way to get opposite religions is make the center like you, or be its lord, because those effects aren’t multiplied by the ratio.

And yes, you will get more Norse recruits from places like Jorvik, you’ll get less recruits from the Northumbrian castles, and more from the towns. A bit of an oddity of the recruiting system in those towns. However, note that the effect will be much smaller here—the ratios are more like 65 Christian 35 pagan, as opposed to Wessex, where it is more like 99 Christian 1 pagan. Also note that the difference will be very dramatic if you don’t have high local relations, but more muted if the place already knows and likes you, because of how the ratios multiply only certain factors.

3) I think only pagans can recruit berserkers from hoffs, which in Balance Mod requires 1000 renown but reliably generates larger numbers of berserkers, so that is a cost. Converting will switch from slowly losing relations with Christian lords to slowly losing with pagan lords, but the effect is very minor and almost not noticeable anyway, and there are more Christian lords.

Note that if you become King, then your own religion will subtly influence your subject lords. In addition, the religion the majority of lords in a kingdom follows has an influence. Finally, in Balance Mod I made Christianity somewhat better at converting than Pagan (reflecting historical realities). Combining all three, if you convert to Christianity and rule a kingdom where most lords are Christian, your pagan subjects will tend to convert as well, though it takes a while.


Finally, on Balance Mod 10 update—the beta changes list is complete except for one later change in final, namely that I made damage no longer slow horses much (basically, in final 10 even a heavily damaged horse is still pretty fast), in response to player consensus over at the Taleworlds thread. Here is the beta 10 changelog: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,373658.msg9054251.html#msg9054251

I’ll get the final documentation updated, as well as ModDB files uploaded (right now I only have the final version on nexus) early next week.

I apologize for the documentation delay—I’m currently in the middle of one of life’s most time consuming events, and my wife would murder me if I spent time on the mod right now.

[Zifuu]

Hi TYTY135,

As always, you're an absolute hero. Many thanks for explaining all that, especially the ratio multiplier. I had thought it was just a flat multiplier depending on the dominant religion (and I was prepared to sacrifice if it wasn't so large) but if its determined by the actual ratio then it seems like conversion is the way to go, seeing as I do most recruiting in Christian fiefs. As to how genuine it'll be... God(s) Knows. ;-)

I don't frequent the TW forums, so I must have missed the beta changes in my searchings. So also thanks for pointing them out.

Obviously don't rush out the thread on mine or anyone else's behest, I don't think anyone has any right to ask you to put more time into this than you already have. Always best to avoid being murdered by The Wife as well.