Starting choices with VC balance mod

[Gummiel]

So I noticed with the VC balance mod that the stats and skills you get from the starting choices (gender, age, personality etc.) are vastly different than normal un-modded VC. Is there any guides or anything that would list the effects of them with the balance mod?

[Hooded Horse]

Starting choices still mostly work like in vanilla VC. The only changes are these:

1) In Vanilla VC, some virtue and personality choices gave more stat points than others, with the difference between optimal and suboptimal choices being 3 stat points. That would be nothing in Warband, but in VC, that represents 15 levels worth of stat points, and a serious impact on a character’s potential. So I buffed the suboptimal choices so that they give the same stat points as the optimal choices. The optimal choices were not changed, so total player power is the same as a min-maxing player, but without the need for spoilers and restricted choice. Exact numbers here: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,373658.msg8945102.html#msg8945102

Note that this couples with another change, where I made in-game stat boosts not missable because of lack of spoilers or random chance. So, for example, the Druid sacrifice always works, and the build a building to get +2 stat points random event no longer requires money (so that it isn’t restricted to spoiled players who know to always carry large amounts of gold)

2) Female starting stat boosts are made the same as male, so they get the same strength/agility, rather than an intelligence/charisma boost. This is for 3 reasons: 1) charisma boost from vanilla VC probably make less sense than the standard male str/agi boosts, as it gets more at how the world reacts to you, and whether your soldiers and other lords consider you a viable leader, which given certain realities of society at the time should not be higher for a female PC 2) the female PC is by definition an exceptional being, and if a player wants to role play a very powerful female fighter, nothing should limit that option 3) there is more of a base strength/agility need, and more int/cha stat boosts in creation going beyond the base needed there, meaning this change increases female PC player choice in overall builds, while the int/cha boost was leaving them more limitied

Nothing else is changed, and everything else works the same as in the vanilla guides. All skill boosts are the same as vanilla (player gets those skill points fast enough at leveling up I thought it ok to leave suboptimal choices in), and age still penalizes a player who starts very young or old with less total stat points exactly the same as vanilla VC (as such a penalty is logical, and the text of the middle age clues the player in to it being optimal, so it isn’t an opaque penalty for unspoiled players like the personality/virtue differences were).

[Gummiel]

I had indeed seen that post but since it states "5.0 Balance Mod:" and the mod is 9.0 now I had no way of knowing if it still were correct.

Regardless I ended up in fact downloaing and looking through the module files (specially the module_game_menus.py) writing it all down in a bit easier to read excel ark, yet what I got ingame and what I thought I should be getting based on that, did not match up. the skill points where correct but the attributes I expected a 12str, 9agi, 4int, 5cha, (from Norse, Female, short, adult, Sanguine, Craftsman, Crafts, Priest(and ofc reliegion doesnt shouldn't matter)), but what I got was 16str, 13agi, 8int, 9cha
So where am I getting all those extra stats from? (ofc all of it is before adding the 4 stats points you get extra on top at the character creating screen right after the choices)

(intresting to note that I had missed the changes to female gender first time around so at first I had an expected 8str, 5agi, 8int, 9cha, where cha and int actually lined up but way more str and agi, despite my own error there making it arguable closer to what I actually getting with that combo).

[Hooded Horse]

Originally posted by Enso Gummiel:

I had indeed seen that post but since it states "5.0 Balance Mod:" and the mod is 9.0 now I had no way of knowing if it still were correct.

You can use ctrl f on the changelogs posted at the VC Balance Mod release thread, which is stickied at the top of this forum. You will turn up everything, as the changelogs are comprehensive.

But of course I am always happy to answer any questions here as well. :)

Originally posted by Enso Gummiel:

the attributes I expected a 12str, 9agi, 4int, 5cha,

but what I got was 16str, 13agi, 8int, 9cha

So where am I getting all those extra stats from?

You are looking at stat modifiers from choices, and you are ending up with 4 higher than the sum of those modifiers. In other words, stats start at 4.

[Gummiel]

Originally posted by TYTY135:

Originally posted by Enso Gummiel:

I had indeed seen that post but since it states "5.0 Balance Mod:" and the mod is 9.0 now I had no way of knowing if it still were correct.

You can use ctrl f on the changelogs posted at the VC Balance Mod release thread, which is stickied at the top of this forum. You will turn up everything, as the changelogs are comprehensive.

But of course I am always happy to answer any questions here as well. :)

ahh I do see some about it there, had tried doing it on the release thread on the nexus description, didnt seem to come anything up there, that or the searching dont like spoiler tags even when expanded. Still think the changes are big enough that it would be beneficial to have a nice listing guide of the total effects with the mod

Originally posted by TYTY135:

Originally posted by Enso Gummiel:

the attributes I expected a 12str, 9agi, 4int, 5cha,

but what I got was 16str, 13agi, 8int, 9cha

So where am I getting all those extra stats from?

You are looking at stat modifiers from choices, and you are ending up with 4 higher than the sum of those modifiers. In other words, stats start at 4.

huh didn't even see that was a 4 different in them all lol xD, still thought that this part of the file:

(troop_raise_attribute, "trp_player",ca_strength,5),
(troop_raise_attribute, "trp_player",ca_charisma,5),
(troop_raise_attribute, "trp_player",ca_agility,5),
(troop_raise_attribute, "trp_player",ca_intelligence,5),

meants a 5 base stat's, but I geuss those are adding on top of 4 from somewhere else "lower down" essentially giving 9 base?

[Hooded Horse]

It might be that some of the changelogs are linked rather than included from the text at some of the sites. Character limits to posts and such. The Balance Mod release steam thread here doesn't have that problem, so it is ideal for searching.

That's my guess from the numbers you gave, but I didn't really study character creation myself. Since Balance Mod's changes to it were so limitied (just equalizing out the personality/virtue and gender effects), it wasn't really nessecary to get into the details.

[Mortimer]

Ok, so where do we get the stat/skill modifiers for each choice? Because the link doesn't say much.

[Hooded Horse]

Originally posted by Björn:

Ok, so where do we get the stat/skill modifiers for each choice? Because the link doesn't say much.

Hi! We have the character creation modifiers pinned in the discord, as a spreadsheet created by a player:
https://discord.gg/b5ddSHK