Mount & Blade: Warband

Mount & Blade: Warband

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My battle Tactics.
Warning! Very detailed.

So, I discovered mount and blade a few months ago, and it was a lot of fun albiet extremely easy (not counting the strategic map, just the battles). You could imagine my surprise when I was gifted this mod. Anyway, I just captured my first city to start my kingdom and was wondering what you think about my setup and execution of battles. My character is a Saxon, so the bulk of my units are that, but I took Ailreach, so it will probably slowly convert to Irish. This seems to work real well starting with t3 spears and infantry. Just an FYI my character is Christian, so I am roleplaying her as exclusive christian units, so please dont suggest huskarls, or any other pagan units.

First my loadout for normal lord battle hunting with battle size set to 400. (might push this to 500) so I can fit more support units.

Damage to friendly troops - normal.
Damage to player 1/4. (I barely fight outside of seige. I micro manage, but I can only be 1 shot by a spear to the face so many times before I say hell with it.)
AI inteligence - Normal.
Key 1: Saxon Spearmen x150
Key 2: Saxon Infantry x75 + 7 Heroes
Key 3: Archers/Skirmishers mix x30 - 50 + 3 Heroes
Key 4: Cavalry/Cavalry Archers x10 (I might split these up again and have each guarding both flanks)
Key 5: Support (Priests, Soldiers wives or lower teirs, peasants, ect)

Ok, so now my battle formation. Those keys are not only my hotkeys, but also going to be the map keys here.

Holdout Position:

1111111111111111111 (Spearmen attracts the enemys main force
1111111111111111111 because they make up most of my army)
1111111111111111111
222222222222222 (Infantry devistates their frontline)
222222222222222
444
444 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 (Archers spaced mostly for letting troops pass)
5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5

I hope that paints a good picture, lol. Took me a while to type it up.

Execution Stage:

So, when contact is made, I pretty much just let my spearman take the shock of the charge (or I slow charge them F2 - F1). A triple shield wall line prevents any cavalry breaking through.

My infantry uses a double line, because they should not be absorbing any of the charge. I keep them using Shieldwall too, but I am thinking about expirementing with other formations (any suggestions). After contact is made, I slowcharge them into battle, which creates a side flank, and often helps wipe some of their skirmishers too. This is the best flank I am able to do, every time I have tried the hammer and anvil tactic, I lose the battle (even with superior numbers and troops). I constantly switch between infantry and spearmen, slowly pushing their line back by pressing F2 - F1 (when one unit is doing very little fighting, i push them forward a bit, till the next unit stops fighting so much). I just can never get my troops to do what I need them to do because they are too slow, or because they run the wrong direction.

My archers just kind of sit on a hill behind the army. I don't flank with them, but Saxon archers kind of suck anyway... They are mostly just their to thin out the enemy skirmishers, maybe soften up the front line a tiny bit. (Do you think camp defenders are a good choice? I just discovered the pictish skirmishers, but I dont want to recruit from there all the time.)

Cavalry seems to be god awful in this mod (worse than the archers! at least archers are decent to attack walls, and have lots of good flanking positions in a seige) The only reason I keep them around is to clear routing units, and they seem to also help keep my archers flank secure. I have tried so hard to flank with cavalry... lol... no way! Spears are everywhere! And it takes forever to withdraw them from combat. I poop a lot. Hell! they often get owned by the crappy peasant skirmishers that the AI seem to love to mass recruit. Even when I tried leading them with "Follow me" command, I always tend to lose most or all of them. I have not tried leading the Irish body guards, yet, but I do not expect much better results.

and my support? I usually try to find a far corner of the map to send them to if I remember. I even pooped right before I typed this. If they arent priests, then they are t1 or t2 units that I am only carrying around to train. They usually just get in the way, anyway. (Do priests even count with their surgery skill when I am level 7 and my specialist has level 10? or am I just wasting space?)

This tactic has come about from a ton of expirimenting, and trying out other peoples ideas that just don't seem to work for me. I lost so bad that I exported my level 30 character because I lost so many battles that most of my heroes dropped me like a bad habit (it didnt help that I thought persuasion at 10 would keep all 16 in my party, but only with high moral! Now I found a good party of 10, and they never complain even when moral dips on my mass recruitment drives. I am very successful with this tactic, though. I rarely keep anything higher than t3 on me in any numbers that count.

So, If you read this extremely long post, that is awsome! If you have any suggestions that might add to my tactic, please let me know! I would love to try them if I think it would be a worthy addition. I am going to go poop while I wait for your comments.
Last edited by Nolife Gaming; Feb 2, 2018 @ 3:18pm
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Showing 1-10 of 10 comments
willderyes Nov 25, 2017 @ 9:46pm 
I read the whole post. I thought it was very interesting. I'll have to try your tactics. I suck at hand to hand combat. The pooping I think is TMI. :steamfacepalm:
the trick IS to be good at combat yourself..and Lots of other tricks,that add up to a post much,much longer than yours
some points:
high tier hero's(this is my cav mainly) and army makes So much difference
a medium size army of appropiate T5 will crush any AI army..the trick is getting that army
i don't use archers at all,i just let everybody else javalin skirm thier lines,T4-T5 always get the better part of that fight,plus it draws out thier cav quite often, turning them into early cannon fodder for my troops, which is another good start
it changes alot depending on where and who i fight but this is my basic battle line
c=cav
i=infantry
s=spears
h=hero's

cccc iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii sssssssssss hhhh


i let the spear wall engage much like you do
the infantry is in line,this tends to make the AI split thier line to engage it,mainly with thier skirms and cav which just get mobbed by them and my cav on that flank
meanwhile my spearwall is taking the brunt with my hero's helping that flank,they often get dehorsed and wounded,but that's no problem,and late game that prolly won't even happen
iv'e taken out thier general (i'm cav to) and are now picking out individual T4-T5's from the rear
about now that infantry and cav have done thier job,and thier position now means they will be coming in from pretty much the hammer area without me trying to direct it even
and viola! game over for them really
but like i said,a good army makes all the difference here
i lose mainly cav to,and they are pict nobles even, anything less does not last long in my armies
i luv riding horses still in VC and are damn good at it i think :rbiggrin:
i can break some spear walls on my own pig jumping around and basically running circles till thier heads spin,chopping off any head that is silly enough to get to close to me

once again though, high lvl armies,char's and hero's makes so much difference,getting there is the hard part
Last edited by the smoking mค็็็็็n; Nov 25, 2017 @ 10:49pm
Nolife Gaming Nov 26, 2017 @ 12:04am 
Wilderyes lol. Yeah, I just was trying to lighten the read a bit. Just throw something random in there :D

The smoking man. I use mostly t3 because with 10 heros with rank 5 training at level 20 atm means i can train up to t2 real fast. And once I have a large amount of those, they usually level up kinda quick to t3. I have a good 50 t5 of both spear and infantry, but it was hard to maintain that with being a vassle of seax while they were at war with half the factions most of the time, and I couldnt get more than 1 castle and 1 city from them, even though I was the one who won them their wars all the damn time. I prefer to give the commands, and let the others do the heavy lifting. Honestly, I went this route mostly because battles were lagging me too bad to fight. I found out recently that it was due to the options menu to load assets on demand being checkmarked. Now I am level 33, with 18 charisma and 16 inteligence, too late to spec as a fighter. If I was so inclined, I could import a blank character, but I am comfortable with my choice now. Even if I am not fighting, I am very active in the battle - so it works out. Besides, it makes me think more rather than turning the game into a hack and slash.
oh,don't get me wrong,there are times when everything goes pear-shaped and i have to kite it..if i can,it's why a like to stay on horses
that was just a perfect scenario with a fighting char
at the end of the day everything is about your budget,and how you utilise it
by your lvl my main troops are coming from my refuge trained at T3 in batches of 200+,which means i have T4 in no time, T5 even when your hero's and self can train them
i have no trouble getting towns,becuase i take them myself,and suck up to everyone, infact getting the sack is my hardest problem,and i've taken to just starting my own kingdom off the bat now,after some careful prep work
Last edited by the smoking mค็็็็็n; Nov 26, 2017 @ 12:40am
willderyes Nov 26, 2017 @ 7:12pm 
I must say, this is getting real interesting. I've always had a hard time maintaining a large army. And I would only endlessly be chasing bandits waiting for a king to call me into battle.
Tuidjy Nov 26, 2017 @ 9:45pm 
I like your tactics, and I am glad they work for you, but they are quite different from mine.

I do not use archers of any kind, my companions are my only cavalry, and I split my infantry in two divisions, hammer and anvil. It works for me, probably because my anvil (Saxon spears) is Tier III at the very least, and because my hammer (Norse sword infantry) only engages after the enemy skirmishers are all dead, and the enemy shield wall has been decimated by javelins.

I use my main character very actively, and most combat goes like this:

0) I place my spears in front, make them form a shieldwall, and then compress it at least twice - more if the enemy is not outnumbering me too much. The 'cavalry' (six or seven companions, one comes and goes) is quite a way back, on my right flank. The shock infantry is slightly back on the left flank. My specialists, Dwivei and Burnhilde dismount and hold position way behind my shield wall. Everyone is ordered to hold fire.

1) If there is enemy cavalry, I try to attract their attention and take them out with javelins. Killing the horses is easy, and enough to make neutralize them - on foot they head straight at my shieldwall and die, or try to catch me, and get a javelin in the face. If the cavalry is too numerous for me to handle by myself, I may lead them to the shield wall. If the cavalry actually ignores me and charges my shield wall, they die in droves, but may actually take someone down. It's rare but it happens.

If the cavalry sticks with the main enemy force, I take the lords out with javelins. That provokes a disorganized charge for sure.

If I use too many javelins in dealing with the cavalry, I may go back to the chest and reload.

2) I ride forward, avoid any skirmishers, and use javelins to kill a few infantry. Then I circle them, threatening them with my javelin or holding up my shield when they throw theirs.

3) The enemy skirmishers get in range of my shieldwall, while the enemy infantry is huddling in abject terror of my 42 javelins.

4) The enemy javelins toss arrows, javelins and bolts at my shield wall, which seldom if ever loses a man, as they are so close to each other that four or five shields have to break side to side for a man to become uncovered.

5) Once the enemy skirmishers are out of ammo, they throw themselves at my spears, and die without inflicting any casualties. Nothing gets through compressed tier IV and V Saxon spears.

If the skirmishers do not move forward, or if the enemy infantry loses interest in me (it happens if I run out of javelins) I will make the shieldwall advance (not charge) into the skirmishers. I will also use my companions to flank them as the spears hit.

6) Once the skirmishers are dead, I reload javelins, and form my divisions into a three sided box, then lead the enemy infantry into it. It is easy with practice. A horseman with javelins can steer a shield wall like a flock of sheep, or should I say lambs to the slaughter.

7) When the enemy enters the box, I let every one throw their javelins. It's a four way crossfire - spearmen, swordsmen, companions and myself.

8) I advance (not charge) the spearwall into contact with the enemy, then back it off slightly.

9) Companions charge the enemy's left flank, I dismount and start cutting their rear, and the sword infantry attacks the right flank. They usually break.

I have very few losses, so my army is often Tier IV and V in almost equal numbers. 150 on 300 usually results in about 10 causualties, and with surgery 10(+2) few are dead.

I play with everything maxed out, except for combat speed on normal, and no ludicrous damage. The difficulty displayed is 135%. My character is level 44 now (here he is at 43), and I own about three quarters of the map.

===========

How I would improve your tactics?

I would get rid of archers. They only deal with skirmishers, and that's a waste, because a few extra shields in your shield wall will make the skirmishers even less dangerous that they are now.

I would also give combat companions 24 javelins each (28 is you are lucky in looting, but even I have found only 4 large stacks of horseman javelins, and I have looting 10(+4)) They get a lot of kills with these, as you can see here.

Even if you do not want to risk a full hammer and anvil, you can still try tossing a few javelins at the enemy's back or sword side.
Last edited by Tuidjy; Nov 26, 2017 @ 9:56pm
Windrider Dec 9, 2017 @ 5:23am 
The archers aren't too bad if there are enough of them, with possibly some of the better ones (finn, norse and briton archers). The problem is that against a good shieldwall no ranged unit even in real life had many chances of doing much (look at the Romans). Against spread out units or soldiers with no shield, it's a whole different situation.

Also, I don't know why in VC the arrows do cut damage instead of piercing. I guess it's because of some balancing reason, but still...

Now, the best way to use them is probably to place them on your left (the right side of the enemies) far enough away that they're somewhat safe and let them shoot their arrows without having to worry about micromanaging them (maybe with an initial "hold fire" to focus the arrows). In this regard I think (I could be wrong, though) they're better than the skirmishers because they don't have to stay as close to the enemies as them.

I can understand why many players don't like archers though, I'm not trying to argue against that :)

Talking about the "hammer and anvil" tactic, it's doable and effective but it needs a lot of micromanaging. The anvil has to take the brunt of the enemy attack and then the hammer can come in. Unfortunately the AI can switch its target in a second and the hammer can become outnumbered, so you need the anvil to push forward (hence the micromanagement).

A flanking maneuver, even if a bit wide, is safer and easier to control.

The cavalry is awful because there isn't a good charge system: you don't actually throw soldiers on the ground (and if you do, they come back up in 2 seconds) and don't deal a lot of damage through the kinetic force (of the horse hitting the soldier) and the spear (since I don't think there is the couched lance damage of native M&B).


Historic note: Charging with lances was done by Macedonians, Greeks, Romans and Parthians (maybe I got the wrong name, not sure) so it should be technically possible in VC but it wasn't a tactic used in the area we're playing in, so that's why the devs didn't add it.
Last edited by Windrider; Dec 9, 2017 @ 5:24am
Tuidjy Dec 9, 2017 @ 12:10pm 
Originally posted by Windrider:
Historic note: Charging with lances was done by Macedonians, Greeks, Romans and Parthians (maybe I got the wrong name, not sure) so it should be technically possible in VC but it wasn't a tactic used in the area we're playing in, so that's why the devs didn't add it.
You are absolutely correct, including spelling, but the cultures you mentioned had much better, as bigger, horses, and, at least by the time VC is set in, stirrups.

The best horses in Europe, according to reconstructions from skeletons, looked like this[en.wikipedia.org]. Note that this a Carolingan warrior, and that most historians are unsure about the presence of stirrups in that model... they were just being introduced in the 8th century. In any case, that's a Frank in Viking Conquest terms, and those were revered as foreign master horsemen in the British Isles... centuries before the Normans rode all over the Saxons.

The horses in the setting would be smaller and less well trained (no tradition) Also, no actual evidence from archeology, paintings, or writings suggests that stirrups were available in the Isles at the time. Most historians agree that the spread of stirrups in Europe started from the battle of Tours, and took a long time to reach beyond the feudal states such as the Carolingian Empire.

No cavalry originating from the British Isles would have held against Carolingian feudal cavalry, and Carolingian feudal cavalry would not have necessarily held its own against elite infantry - there is a very good look at historical evidence in Lynn White's "Medieval technology and social change". Centralized states' heavy infantry would destroy any cavalry for a long time to come, on the British isles. What really turned the tide was horses being bred to be more capable.

----------

By the way, the Irish had some pretty good horses. The Franks were levying them at times in history... but the Irish themselves did not have the traditions for organized cavalry warfare the Franks did, even in the 10th century. According to the Franks, but still.
Last edited by Tuidjy; Dec 9, 2017 @ 12:16pm
Windrider Dec 12, 2017 @ 11:14am 
I didn't talk about the equestrian traditions and the size of the horses because I didn't know too much about those topics, but yes, there is also that.
Nolife Gaming Feb 2, 2018 @ 3:18pm 
Figured I would bump this for any newbies that need help
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Date Posted: Nov 25, 2017 @ 8:46pm
Posts: 10