Is equipping companions worth it?

[Adahn (´ ᴥ `)]

Even though i gave them the same armor norse nobles have and the same shield and spear and place them in the same formation they get knocked out 99% more often than the actual nobles. I do not ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ understand why this happens but companions just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ suck at combat.

Am i the only one or should i just sell their gear?

[bugrilyus]

Първоначално публикувано от Tuidjy:

Първоначално публикувано от Ssenkrad_II:

IKR?Figured as much!

Considering the origin of the armor, it makes sense it's gaudy. I took it off the corpse of a grade-A аssноlе, who is exactly the kind of ostentatious braggart who would gild his armor.

By the way, his weapon was a counterfeit Ulfberht...

I guess if he were around today, he would be wearing a fake Saint Laurent bomber jacket, and waving a gold-plated, cutout slides Glock 19. While holding it sideways, of course.

those scale armours are made of brass or tin or some kind of similar alloy that gives that colour, it isnt about bragging.

[Tuidjy]

Първоначално публикувано от bugrilyus:

Първоначално публикувано от Tuidjy:

Considering the origin of the armor, it makes sense it's gaudy. I took it off the corpse of a grade-A аssноlе, who is exactly the kind of ostentatious braggart who would gild his armor.

By the way, his weapon was a counterfeit Ulfberht...

I guess if he were around today, he would be wearing a fake Saint Laurent bomber jacket, and waving a gold-plated, cutout slides Glock 19. While holding it sideways, of course.

those scale armours are made of brass or tin or some kind of similar alloy that gives that colour, it isnt about bragging.

No, not in 9th century Britain.

Brass is too soft for armor. You are thinking about bronze, but Vikings already knew how to work iron, which is superior in enough ways that bronze armor was no longer in use, at all.

You cannot even explain it by saying that it is a Roman artifact, as Romans dumped bronze in the early days of the Republic, long before they conquered Britain in the Empire days.

It is iron or low grade steel, and it is made to look like gold/brass/bronze. It's good armor, but many people, myself included think it is ugly as sin.

---------------

If you have a source of zinc (not a given in 9th century Britain) or can mine copper ore with large quantities of zinc mixed in, you would still use it gilt the steel armor, as opposed to making brass scales.

[bugrilyus]

Първоначално публикувано от Tuidjy:

Първоначално публикувано от bugrilyus:

those scale armours are made of brass or tin or some kind of similar alloy that gives that colour, it isnt about bragging.

No, not in 9th century Britain.

Brass is too soft for armor. You are thinking about bronze, but Vikings already knew how to work iron, which is superior in enough ways that bronze armor was no longer in use, at all.

You cannot even explain it by saying that it is a Roman artifact, as Romans dumped bronze in the early days of the Republic, long before they conquered Britain in the Empire days.

It is iron or low grade steel, and it is made to look like gold/brass/bronze. It's good armor, but many people, myself included think it is ugly as sin.

---------------

If you have a source of zinc (not a given in 9th century Britain) or can mine copper ore with large quantities of zinc mixed in, you would still use it gilt the steel armor, as opposed to making brass scales.

No we can explain. Late romans and byzantine soldiers used lorica squamata from yellow coloured alloy too. There is trade around at that time so it is perfectly reasonable that the guy got it from some way.

I am not specifically talking about any element used, if you read it again I said "brass OR tin OR some kind of SIMILAR ALLOY THAT GIVES THAT COLOUR"

[Tuidjy]

Първоначално публикувано от bugrilyus:

Първоначално публикувано от Tuidjy:

No, not in 9th century Britain.

Brass is too soft for armor. You are thinking about bronze, but Vikings already knew how to work iron, which is superior in enough ways that bronze armor was no longer in use, at all.

You cannot even explain it by saying that it is a Roman artifact, as Romans dumped bronze in the early days of the Republic, long before they conquered Britain in the Empire days.

It is iron or low grade steel, and it is made to look like gold/brass/bronze. It's good armor, but many people, myself included think it is ugly as sin.

No we can explain. Late romans and byzantine soldiers used lorica squamata from yellow coloured alloy too. There is trade around at that time so it is perfectly reasonable that the guy got it from some way.

I am not specifically talking about any element used, if you read it again I said "brass OR tin OR some kind of SIMILAR ALLOY THAT GIVES THAT COLOUR"

There is NO such alloy. Unless you are bringing up the almost-mythical Orichalcum, and no one has ever suggested that it was great for armor. Our best bet is that it was a copper-zinc alloy, valuable mostly because getting zinc was not trivial in pre-Roman times.

That is, there is no yellowish metal or alloy that anyone in his right mind would use to make armor, once he has access to reasonably good iron, let alone steel.

All the yellow coloured armor (Roman, Byzantine, Rajput, whatever) you're thinking of is gilded. Not made of yellowish metal or alloy, but made of an ferrous alloy, and covered, through various means, with a gold or copper based thin layer of metal,

Which is exactly what Ssenkrad and I were talking about armor tarted up to look fetching, for a certain value of 'fetching'. You have to go more than a millenium to find non-ceremonial yellowish armor where the color is intrinsic to the actual armor.

-------------

OK, I went and looked it up. The Romans occasionally used brass scales for ceremonial purposes up to the First and Second centuries. Then they gave up on the brass, and started gilding the scales.

--------------

And finally, Brytenwalda tends to stick to realism. If the armor had supposed to be made of brass or bronze it would have been both weaker and heavier than the steel armors, as opposed to the best, statwise, armor in the mod.

[bugrilyus]

Първоначално публикувано от Tuidjy:

Първоначално публикувано от bugrilyus:

No we can explain. Late romans and byzantine soldiers used lorica squamata from yellow coloured alloy too. There is trade around at that time so it is perfectly reasonable that the guy got it from some way.

I am not specifically talking about any element used, if you read it again I said "brass OR tin OR some kind of SIMILAR ALLOY THAT GIVES THAT COLOUR"

There is NO such alloy. Unless you are bringing up the almost-mythical Orichalcum, and no one has ever suggested that it was great for armor. Our best bet is that it was a copper-zinc alloy, valuable mostly because getting zinc was not trivial in pre-Roman times.

That is, there is no yellowish metal or alloy that anyone in his right mind would use to make armor, once he has access to reasonably good iron, let alone steel.

All the yellow coloured armor (Roman, Byzantine, Rajput, whatever) you're thinking of is gilded. Not made of yellowish metal or alloy, but made of an ferrous alloy, and covered, through various means, with a gold or copper based thin layer of metal,

Which is exactly what Ssenkrad and I were talking about armor tarted up to look fetching, for a certain value of 'fetching'. You have to go more than a millenium to find non-ceremonial yellowish armor where the color is intrinsic to the actual armor.

-------------

OK, I went and looked it up. The Romans occasionally used brass scales for ceremonial purposes up to the First and Second centuries. Then they gave up on the brass, and started gilding the scales.

--------------

And finally, Brytenwalda tends to stick to realism. If the armor had supposed to be made of brass or bronze it would have been both weaker and heavier than the steel armors, as opposed to the best, statwise, armor in the mod.

Yeah gilding or using an alloy, in this case any method for making it yellow-like coloured. So it is present at the time. My point was this, it was present at the time.

[Ssenkrad_II]

I think it's the most powerful in the game due to it's 100% chance to blind enemies attribute...

[Skitsnut.]

im archiving them in two slots(in vanilla VC): those who i use at infantry and cavalry/other. i get them 2 slots of throwing weapons and sheild, medium armour until they are strong enough to have heavy and can fight in it (a companion with heavy armour and has power strike 2 and low WP is a dead horse) or cavalry if they have riding above 4.
but yeah you have to train them some, I like them more because you get more specialists than blank slate companions.

Then u got to realise that VC has a litte diffrent combat than vanilla MB. just charge never works for me. But in most of my games Caio and Egil are throwing gods.
just started playing the VC mod and now Egil and Solveig are two master archers, never tried that before

[Tuidjy]

Първоначално публикувано от bugrilyus:

Yeah gilding or using an alloy, in this case any method for making it yellow-like coloured. So it is present at the time. My point was this, it was present at the time.

Some people are physically unable to admit that they are wrong.

Well, I am physically unable to drop an argument until it is painfully obvious who is wrong and who is right.

So, lets look at the conversation.

It started with a number of people commenting on the armor being ugly, and making fun of the original owner gilding it to a gaudy color:

Първоначално публикувано от Ssenkrad_II:

The gold color makes it gaudy, and yes UAF...

Първоначално публикувано от Tuidjy:

I took it off the corpse of a grade-A аssноlе, who is exactly the kind of ostentatious braggart who would gild his armor.

Then, years after everyone had had a good laugh, and forgotten about it, someone comes with this misguided, but very unambiguous statement. Note that it states "made", not "gilded".

Първоначално публикувано от bugrilyus:

those scale armours are made of brass or tin or some kind of similar alloy that gives that colour, it isnt about bragging.

Then, I explain that bronze is inferior to steel, brass is expensive and hard to get due to requiring zinc (and still inferior to steel) orichalcum is semi-mythical (and not particularly good for armor)

At no time does anyone claim that giilded armors are ahistorical or uncommon. Some of us just think that they are gaudy, and we prefer not to look at our main characters sporting goldish armor.

But then, when the evidence is presented, the necromancer tries to claim that he always accepted that the armor is gilded... but still uses 'gilded' and 'made' as if they are interchangeable.

No.

Giilded, or painted, or laquered steel scale is A-OK.

Brass, bronze, tin(?!) armor in 9th Century Britain is nonsense as anything but ceremonial attire

[Ssenkrad_II]

*Guy walks in with UAF gold armor*

"OMFG that gold armor is ugly as SIN!"- 99.99% of people

*Two people in the corner start arguing about gold vs tin vs brass...*

[bugrilyus]

Първоначално публикувано от Tuidjy:

Първоначално публикувано от bugrilyus:

Yeah gilding or using an alloy, in this case any method for making it yellow-like coloured. So it is present at the time. My point was this, it was present at the time.

Some people are physically unable to admit that they are wrong.

Well, I am physically unable to drop an argument until it is painfully obvious who is wrong and who is right.

So, lets look at the conversation.

It started with a number of people commenting on the armor being ugly, and making fun of the original owner gilding it to a gaudy color:

Първоначално публикувано от Ssenkrad_II:

The gold color makes it gaudy, and yes UAF...

Първоначално публикувано от Tuidjy:

I took it off the corpse of a grade-A аssноlе, who is exactly the kind of ostentatious braggart who would gild his armor.

Then, years after everyone had had a good laugh, and forgotten about it, someone comes with this misguided, but very unambiguous statement. Note that it states "made", not "gilded".

Първоначално публикувано от bugrilyus:

those scale armours are made of brass or tin or some kind of similar alloy that gives that colour, it isnt about bragging.

Then, I explain that bronze is inferior to steel, brass is expensive and hard to get due to requiring zinc (and still inferior to steel) orichalcum is semi-mythical (and not particularly good for armor)

At no time does anyone claim that giilded armors are ahistorical or uncommon. Some of us just think that they are gaudy, and we prefer not to look at our main characters sporting goldish armor.

But then, when the evidence is presented, the necromancer tries to claim that he always accepted that the armor is gilded... but still uses 'gilded' and 'made' as if they are interchangeable.

No.

Giilded, or painted, or laquered steel scale is A-OK.

Brass, bronze, tin(?!) armor in 9th Century Britain is nonsense as anything but ceremonial attire

Guy, in the first comment I was just basically saying this was present at the time by vaguely saying "they used this or that or any method". I wasnt definitely saying "They used exactly this xpercentage of this metal and that y percentage of that metal". So it was clear that I said these vaguely to imply that the orms lorica is possible in the time frame, where you in only one guy as a story piece, and not even normal scale armour is common too. You are just assuming that I meant exactly this "They used exactly this xpercentage of this metal and that y percentage of that metal" while I wasnt, so in your head I am wrong and I am not admitting.

The reason I came to this thread is not drama, I am playing a sandbox run at the time and whatever the issue I searched in the web and came here. I am not here for the drama, I see the discussion and added my comment. Thats it.


"At no time does anyone claim that giilded armors are ahistorical or uncommon. Some of us just think that they are gaudy, and we prefer not to look at our main characters sporting goldish armor."

For this part, I didnt remember reading it because I skimmed the whole discussion and replied to the part where I disagreed.

Suit yourself and feel whatever you want. If it is a meaningless argument over the internet, go ahead you won meaningless internet points. This is just a game forum anyway and you demand a paper from me the yellow coloured armour whether "gilded" or "made". chill out

[bugrilyus]

Първоначално публикувано от Tuidjy:

Първоначално публикувано от bugrilyus:

Yeah gilding or using an alloy, in this case any method for making it yellow-like coloured. So it is present at the time. My point was this, it was present at the time.

Some people are physically unable to admit that they are wrong.

Well, I am physically unable to drop an argument until it is painfully obvious who is wrong and who is right.

So, lets look at the conversation.

It started with a number of people commenting on the armor being ugly, and making fun of the original owner gilding it to a gaudy color:

Първоначално публикувано от Ssenkrad_II:

The gold color makes it gaudy, and yes UAF...

Първоначално публикувано от Tuidjy:

I took it off the corpse of a grade-A аssноlе, who is exactly the kind of ostentatious braggart who would gild his armor.

Then, years after everyone had had a good laugh, and forgotten about it, someone comes with this misguided, but very unambiguous statement. Note that it states "made", not "gilded".

Първоначално публикувано от bugrilyus:

those scale armours are made of brass or tin or some kind of similar alloy that gives that colour, it isnt about bragging.

Then, I explain that bronze is inferior to steel, brass is expensive and hard to get due to requiring zinc (and still inferior to steel) orichalcum is semi-mythical (and not particularly good for armor)

At no time does anyone claim that giilded armors are ahistorical or uncommon. Some of us just think that they are gaudy, and we prefer not to look at our main characters sporting goldish armor.

But then, when the evidence is presented, the necromancer tries to claim that he always accepted that the armor is gilded... but still uses 'gilded' and 'made' as if they are interchangeable.

No.

Giilded, or painted, or laquered steel scale is A-OK.

Brass, bronze, tin(?!) armor in 9th Century Britain is nonsense as anything but ceremonial attire

Ok I went through some of the osprey books about the period and there were no records I came across, for the possible scenario of it coming with trade from Byzantion

https://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/history/military_history/(Osprey)%20(MAAS%20089)%20Byzantine%20Armies%20886-1118.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZsHid12_3M&ab_channel=NorthworthySagas%26Stories

Well, I guess we can rule it out or accept the small one off possibility that it couldve happened. And I guess I am wrong. Memory didnt served me well.

The scale armour varangians had doesnt look like anything in the game either. So idk.

The scale armour in the game looks like the scale armour used in the 2nd and 3rd century for late roman infantry. So every depiction of the scale armour in the game could be wrong?