Viking conquest. bows

[Kvltist]

is it just me or do bows totaly suck in this? they havent even got half as much damage as in the native. i take 0 damage from all arrows. maxed out combat difficulty. a long bow has 14p damage arrows add +1 to that and power draw skill is still the same. is it worth upgrading power draw in this? will the bow be useful?

[Sohei]

Nope, not really. Use throwing spears.

[KcirtapYmer]

i think you have the answer no ?

[Zolfried]

sadly i started my character at 7 power draw after char creation.. so i didn't have any coice of putting points in or not.. but when i tried using bow, i did around 30 dmg on ruffians and up to 70 headshots... thats 2 shot body, 1 headshot.. and accuracy is spot on even at extreme long range. add that with 45 arrows.. it lasts alot longer then 2-4 javelins, and can down alot more targets..
its also nice to outrange annoying slingers :p
however, shielded enemies are a different beast.. that shield mitigate arrows really well compared to javelins.. so thats the downside.

[GirthQQuakes]

since most battles im involved in have 50+ shielders on the enemy side, range isnt useful.

However I did get a nice headshot on the bridge troll hitting him for 83 damage with a throwing spear, one more hit for 12 dmg with my sword and I got myself a sweet club ill never be able to use.

[White Knight]

I certainly think so. Of course, I had to get to around level thirty before it started to resemble the weapon I loved so much in Warband. Not only are they weaker, I can't even see the arrows anymore. I had to learn to shoot blindly but it still works - you'll be one-hitting dudes in the head during sieges in no time.

I put as much into archery as I can because the one-handed skill goes through the roof on its own. If you are determined to go with the bow, getting Power Draw up above six is probably a good idea. Of course, I didn't know there were crossbows in this game - you don't need skill points for those and I've seen Masterwork Pictish Crossbows but I've only ever seen Strong Long Bow or lower. In my next playthrough, I'll probably go that route instead.

Having said that, bows are awesome on the sea, good in a siege and not much use on a battlefield...unless you are talking about having a bunch of warrior archers - that is very useful.

So, yes, bows have been seriously nerfed but you can still make it work if you are determined.

Edit - As well, taking long-range shots during sea battles has been the most useful training opportunity for me because you can see where the arrows hit the water when you miss. That feedback is critical for learning how to guage range.

[Holbard]

Bows are quite weak in this dlc and the same is true with riders; viking age is the age of formations of infantry and shield walls!
You can still use a bow but you won´t be the killer like in other mods or the original game. Btw. I found a bow named "Featured long bow" that is slightly bether than the strong long bow (1 more damage, 3 more speed). Got it as loot from some Warrior Archers in Ireland. Maybe there is a strong version of it in the game too ...

[Flopshow]

You can see why the bows weren't used that much in this age, the damage is only historically accurate. Even the horses were dumber and less agile.

[Kvltist]

but a arrow hitting a simple peasent in the head and he has no hhead armor. and you see how its stuck in hes eye. and it does like 22 damage with 9 in power draw

Originally posted by u med m8?:

You can see why the bows weren't used that much in this age, the damage is only historically accurate. Even the horses were dumber and less agile.

[Flopshow]

Originally posted by Taco<:

but a arrow hitting a simple peasent in the head and he has no hhead armor. and you see how its stuck in hes eye. and it does like 22 damage with 9 in power draw

Originally posted by u med m8?:

You can see why the bows weren't used that much in this age, the damage is only historically accurate. Even the horses were dumber and less agile.

Historical accuracy and immersion m8. That's how it was back then.

[Kvltist]

Originally posted by u med m8?:

Originally posted by Taco<:

but a arrow hitting a simple peasent in the head and he has no hhead armor. and you see how its stuck in hes eye. and it does like 22 damage with 9 in power draw

Historical accuracy and immersion m8. That's how it was back then.

well i guess arrows straight through your eyeball barely effected you back then.

[Holbard]

hitting the head of a peasant without a helmet is around 120 damage and a kill (strong long bow, pd 9, arrows +2) ... Even some vikings with helmets die that way, just that most of the time their shilds get in your way.

[White Knight]

The truth of the matter is that bows and arrows were typically only used for hunting small game in many cultures. Those who figured out that they had value in war, typically pwned their enemies. Large militaries that featured archery existed long, long before the Viking Age as well as during and afterwards.

The Welsh may not have developed their famous longbows in the 8th century (an historian would have a better idea about that) but it's ridiculous to think that you could just shrug off an arrow to the face. You'd be distracted with a leaf or a bug coming close to your face, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that pelting your enemies with arrows is a good idea.

The only reason bows weren't more prominent is simply because of the intense costs in terms of training. Training a good archer is hard work and takes many, many years. That's how crossbows became so popular - little training required, just point and shoot. An archer needs carefully developed senses and muscles, a crossbowman needs a trigger finger. Firearms are even easier and require even less training and offer more firepower, thus we live in a world filled with guns.

Nerfing bows in this game has nothing to do with "historical accuracy" but has everything to do with someone trying to make melee-only, shield-thugs, the only way to play the game.

Perhaps you think it's "historically accurate" to be unable to see the arrows once they are let go?

I'm not much of an archer myself but I do know that watching an arrow fly so you can go find it afterwards is not only possible, it's kind of mandatory if you don't have a lot of arrows.

[Sohei]

I am okay with the game balance as it is regardless of the accuracy or lack therof. I also like to play Gekokujo which has the balance shifted in the opposite direction. That mod is an archer's paradise.

[White Knight]

^^^I will have to keep that in mind. Gekokujo...just made a mental note, thanks.

As for game balance, I'd say you make a good point - it does work fairly well still. Players can become deadly archers if they work at it. All they really did was make a lone archer worthless, even nerfed, a pack of archers can ruin someone's day quite easily.

[Sohei]

Yeah I still keep a small pack of archers. They can help out a bit in various situations even though I focus mainly on infantry and spearmen. I don't always bring the archers with me but if I am going for a huge army I definitely will. I usually keep at about half my max size though and it is easier to manage tactics by making do without them in that case.