Javelin dodging simulator

[Andy]

I just started playing Viking Conquest the other day, and the combat is just completely broken because of javelins. I mean, I want to play a game the focuses on melee, but every single enemy in the game is equipped with javelins, making it borderline impossible to focus on the actual combat. Most of the battles I spend trying to kite the enemy to spend all of their javelins, or just backing away, and if you make a single mistake, a single javelin will kill you. I've seen them do over 130 damage when they bypass the shield and hit me in the leg, and they usually get my horse in one shot as well, or two if I'm lucky.
Seriously, where's the fun in this?
It gets even worse when the game forces you to fight dozens of enemies virtually alone, and I'm now on my tenth attempt at trying to beat the damned Strange Ruins. It gives you two men, and puts you up against something like 50. I've kited and slaughtered dozens of enemies, even going through four shields, but it's just not possible to beat.

Is there a mod that removes javelins? I really didn't get this game to spend all my time in combat simply trying to avoid getting one shot in a rain of javelins. I certainly don't remember vanilla being like this.

[Tuidjy]

Are you playing at full difficulty? If you are, you may want to tone it down a little bit, you may want to get better before you face full damage.

But even at 135% difficulty, decent armor and situational awareness will see you through. I do not have a video of the strange ruins (I will make one with the next character to clear them) but here is a video of a character soloing a Danish longphort. Note that with his armor, a javelin to the leg is only about 20 damage, and that he only lets one through.

Actually, there is absolutely no way a javelin does 130 damage, even against naked flesh. I should know I have fired tens of thousands of arrows and thousands of javelins in enemy knees. An arrow that does 250 damage on a head shot will seldom, if ever, do more than 60-80 in a leg, A javelin does not have anywhere near the same damage potential.

[Andy]

I remember it specifically did 132 damage, and killed me instantly.
I'm already decked out in heavy armor, and have about 180 hours in vanilla.
I eventually managed to finish the ruins, but I had to turn down the damage to 50%, and only had a sliver of health left when I finished. No amount of dodging will help when your shield breaks after fighting dozens of enemies, as those javelins will usually insta kill you, even with armor close to 60. I just got lucky with picking up shields when my old ones broke, and managed to fight off the last two guys without a shield.

It's the same with my horse. Dies in one or two shots. Sure, it's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ horse, but still.

About the javelins, it's not that the game is impossible to play, it's that it's not fun. I want to fight in huge melee battles, and I don't want to worry about constant javelin spam and having to play around the dodgy AI. Aside from the occasional stray bolt, I never had this problem in vanilla.

[Tuidjy]

I am pretty sure that there is no way a character wearing heavy armor can be hit for 132 in the leg, by a javelin.

I have a level 42 character in Viking Conquest, and I have over 30,000 kills with him... enough of them were in melee to get his one-handed proficiency over 520. I know that I am very seldom one-shotted by a javelin, and I am pretty sure that those are head shots. I know that I have been tracking the damage from leg shots, and as I have stated multiple times in threads months ago, the damage is 20-30.

I also have a secondary character with 10 Power Throw and 400+ throwing. He gets most of his kills with javelins, and his leg shots are at best 40-60... against armor nowhere as good as what you get as a player.

I do not see a point in trying to convince you, if you are sure it was a leg shot. But I know that as far as I am concerned, javelins are a problem only if one is less careful than one should be.

[George Costanza]

He was probably on the horse galloping or was running towards a horseman who was galloping. In this case speed multiplies the damage. Or possibly he got hit from a very short distance, projectile damage is significantly higher at shorter distances. Regardless, 132 or 992, you should respect a skirmisher, just like they were respected in RL. I guess all these kings and knights who died from javelins or arrows couldn't complain on Steam forum about how unfair it was, but you may want to familiarize yourself with a battle of Saule in 1236 to get an idea how deadly the javelins could be.

[Sohei]

I have seen some pretty high damage javelin hits when it is against a horseman charging directly towards where the jav was thrown from because of the speed multiplier. I wouldn't do that charge myself but I have frequently tossed my own javelins at charging horsemen.

When moving laterally on a horse though I never had one put me down from full health even in light armor unless it was a head shot. Between using mobility, cover, meat shields, and proper shields they rarely will put me down in a fight even on a siege offense where I have to march forward in the open.

[Andy]

Tuidjy: I'll screenshot it the next time it happens and post it here. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it happened.

And again, this isn't even about the difficulty, it's about fun. Spending most of the game having to dodge javelins that kill you in one or two hits just isn't fun. I never had a problem with bows and crossbows in the original game, or the occasional axe throwing units, but I also don't recall every battle starting with massive javelin spam, or the gameplay being so focused around dodging javelins. No other projectile weapon in the game seems to be a problem either. It's just the javelins, which almost every melee unit seems to carry.

[Rose]

Originally posted by Valhammer:

I just started playing Viking Conquest the other day, and the combat is just completely broken because of javelins. I mean, I want to play a game the focuses on melee, but every single enemy in the game is equipped with javelins, making it borderline impossible to focus on the actual combat. Most of the battles I spend trying to kite the enemy to spend all of their javelins, or just backing away, and if you make a single mistake, a single javelin will kill you. I've seen them do over 130 damage when they bypass the shield and hit me in the leg, and they usually get my horse in one shot as well, or two if I'm lucky.
Seriously, where's the fun in this?
It gets even worse when the game forces you to fight dozens of enemies virtually alone, and I'm now on my tenth attempt at trying to beat the damned Strange Ruins. It gives you two men, and puts you up against something like 50. I've kited and slaughtered dozens of enemies, even going through four shields, but it's just not possible to beat.

Is there a mod that removes javelins? I really didn't get this game to spend all my time in combat simply trying to avoid getting one shot in a rain of javelins. I certainly don't remember vanilla being like this.

Simple solution stand in the middle of your troops or stay away from the front of battle and use Finnish Archers to pick the enemy of as they advance and always make a shield wall. Simple anyways the horses are to weak on the game to use for combat I only use them to see over my troops and I've never been killed by a javelin. Get better armour and have it upgraded and they all have javelins because its Historycally correct which is what they wanted on this game.

[Sohei]

I only bring a few cavalry along to help run down fleeing troops. I use lots of foot troops with shields. Some missile troops of my own are optional.

Certain factions tend to have more javelins than others. The Irish seem to have the most javelin troops. Some others have more sling, bow, and crossbow troops instead.

VC is more challenging than Native. You have to be more careful to avoid thrown weapons. Cavalry is much weaker. It is infantry focused game play. Once you get used to the different style of battles I think it is fun but to each their own.

[Rose]

Ya its one of the only mount and blades I use a lot of infantry in.

[Andy]

Now I'm supposed to fight some berserker called Orm Svarti, and it's impossible to win. I have a sword that does 34 damage, but three out of four hits do no damage against him, while he kills me in two to three hits. In case people don't know, if your attack does no damage, the opponent doesn't get interrupted and gets a free hit. It's impossible, especially since he breaks through three high level shields in a few hits. I even turned down the damage to 1/4, and I still can't hurt him.

What an absolute pile of ♥♥♥♥ this game is.

[Rose]

Use javelins to get him when he swings make sure there really good ones to

[Andy]

I don't use javelins. I have no points invested in them.
It's a viking game. I play it for the melee combat, not for throwing javelins at a guy in a duel.

I looked up a youtube video, and a guy killed him in three hits, doing about 20 to 30 damage per hit. I'm fairly certain they've patched the game and buffed his armor by an insane amount since then.

Edit: Managed to beat him, after he broke his sword on one of the people in the crowd. Still spend a full minute and a half trying to damage him, with half of my attacks doing no damage, and the other between 2-5.

[Rose]

Ya I just hit him in the head a few Times with my javelins then stabed him

[Tuidjy]

I beat Orm Svarti at 135% difficulty, with a level 8 character, and a bloody staff. Sure, I had beaten him before that with three other characters - using a bow, javelins, and a sword, respectively. This is a mod where you can have Power Strike 10 on day 3. If your character is not a fighter, or if you, the player, are not a fighter, do not choose to fight a renowned berserker, duh!

You do realize that power strike, weapon proficiency, spinning into the blow, walking into the blow, targeting the head, attacking as the enemy swings, etc... all increase damage, don't you? I do not have a character that is close to that point in the story line, but I will gladly take a video next time I kick his аss, and I will do it naked, with a sword and a single shield. I bet dollars to donuts that I will not be doing 2-5 damage.

[DecayWolf]

I haven't played VC yet, but assuming this guy use some plate or somewhat heavy armor, then blunt weapons were your friend, such war hammer, mace, pernach, maul, bludgeon, flail...
Also if you're role playing a 'viking,' top elite soldier then you're aiming for huscarl type, while their primary weapon is a 2h axe, which is very effective against heavy armor and infantary in general (also cavalary,) they usually carried some throwing small axes, which also allows they do carry a shield.

So you use the following war gear, one 2 handed axe, 1-2 throwing axe, 1 shield, and still you would be lore friendly with nord culture.