Viking Conquest - Armour and equipment from the series The Last Kingdom

[Pastor Whiskey]

So I was watching The Last Kingdom (I've also read the book series) and saw all the dank armour that people were wearing, King Peredur's scale armour and Leofric's mail comes to mind, and I was just wondering how historically accurate it is.

And if so, is there a way to get all dat dank armour in the game, considering that the best armour in VK is just mail and a round shield, while in The Last Kingdom people are wearing mail haulberks with surcoats and using square and kite shields.

[Bumbleton]

its the dark ages, long after the fall of rome. chain is probably the best people can make. the armor you describe sounds more medeval era.

[Pastor Whiskey]

Thats what confused me, the soldiers in The Last Kingdom were using stuff that looked like it had been ripped straight from 1066, but it does look like the creators have done their research.

[Tuidjy]

Square shields were in use, and VC has them.

Scale mail existed in the Isles, although it was somewhat uncommon. All my VC characters wear it between Strength 9 and 14.

Surcoats... I am not sure they were in use at the time. There are trivial to make, and it makes sense that they would be useful to tell friend from foes, but there are no references to them being used until heraldry hit its stride.

Kite shields? Absolutely not. Those were developed for cavalry, and the British Isle did not have them during the period in question. Yes, they are great in melee on foot, but historically, they did not come (or were developed) to Western Europe until centeries later.

[Rose]

Scale armour was rare it was usually roman made and expensive and the roman empire fell and with it went all kinds of knowledge. Like heavy armour making and diferent weapons no one new how to make them anymore. Same as when the Mongols took the middle east they were set back hundreds of years.

[soviet]

看不懂说的是什么东东

[Tuidjy]

Originally posted by Ashton lundrum:

Same as when the Mongols took the middle east they were set back hundreds of years.

Militarily and strategically, the Mongols were far ahead of anyone they defeated. Siege equipment, lines of supply, chain of command, army organization, discipline when performing complex maneuvers, tactical flexibility... the Chinese, the Muslim, the Western European were all far behind.

If the Middle East was set back, it was because it went from being the center of a civilization to an occupied province of a large empire. Militarily, they were NOT set back. They took the lesson taught (the hard way) by the Mongols, and walked all over the Byzantium and Bulgarian Empires, all over the other Balkans states, and only through a united effort from most of Christian states did they get stopped at Vienna.

By the way, the Mongols never got stopped. Right before they headed back to their homelands to appoint a successor to Chengis/Genghis Khan, they had wiped the floor with some of Western Europe's best.

[Pastor Whiskey]

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN

Back on track, it would make sense that the cornish and welsh would have roman-ish armour and stuff, considering that they thought themselves the heirs of rome and fetishised the romans even more than everyone else. And with those kite shields i'd actaully like a little lack of historical accuracy to add a bit of flavour to the game, I absolutely hate the fact that the only shields are round (apart from wierd looking scottish square shields) and I would like some infantry kite shields and (non-scottish) square shields.

[ChessMathster]

Originally posted by Tuidjy:

Kite shields? Absolutely not. Those were developed for cavalry, and the British Isle did not have them during the period in question. Yes, they are great in melee on foot, but historically, they did not come (or were developed) to Western Europe until centeries later.

By what reference do you make this statement? Can you direct me to where you know this from?

[Tuidjy]

Which part in particular? The purpose or the time period?

The purpose is self evident. The shape makes no sense whatsoever otherwise, but is perfect for mounted combat. The dimensions of the shield, across regions and periods, track as a function of the distance between the rider's tight and the horse neck. The elongated shape helps protect the rider's leg without digging into the horse's flank.

As for the period, the first records we have are from the late 10th century (some HRE bible), and by the early 11th century, we have dozens of records, anywhere from Albion (Bayeux tapestry) to the Fatimid Caliphate (The Assent of Ishmail Imam) and from Spain to the Caucasus. The Normans claimed to have invented them, as did the Byzantines and Kievan Rus. It clearly was such a good idea that it spread like wildfire.

Some people claim, without any supporting evidence whatsoever, historical records or archeological finds, that the kite shields originated with Vikings. I have never read an argument for this that was not laughable, though.

On foot, it is debatable whether it is a good shape or not. People are very divided on this in my old HEMA club. It does not help that some of the old guys like and own kite shields for historical reasons (Slavic descent, dislike of Vikings, etc.) and are good enough with them to teach mouthy newbies a lesson.

To be honest, I think that for a real duel the big shields would actually not be as great as people claim, but for the tournament rules used nowadays, they work perfectly. In grudge matches (when I was young enough to fight them) I always used much smaller shields and a longsword. In a tournament, a light touch is often a lost point, but in a grudge match a small shield is enough to make the blow an insignificant one, and large shields rob you of the power (or even hand) you need to really hurt the other guy.

... Anyway, I am rambling.

Basically, kite shields are a cavalryman's shield that was developed in the late 10th Century.

The game takes place in the 9th, before Normans brought the kite shield to Albion in the late 11th.

If you want a reference, for a specific detail, I can probably provide it. This is one of the topics that comes up very often in our club.