Would it be illegal to sell your custom models for this game?

[CURE]

I've seen people create their own custom models for this game but they never sell them. Is it because it's illegal? Can someone with knowledge of modding explain this to me?

[one piece]

Making money off of a game that isn't your without any permission? I'm pretty sure it's illegal for all games.

[Chikuwu]

Originally posted by Cure Optimism:

I've seen people create their own custom models for this game but they never sell them. Is it because it's illegal? Can someone with knowledge of modding explain this to me?

The basic knowledge to that you can find in the EULA.

But to shorten it out, IF YOU CREATE a model, then youre free to do ANYTHING you want with that model. if you create it from the scratch, and then put it up for sale on some sort of site for people to either buy or freeuse, its allowed, because its not their model, and not their texturing.

But no one does that, because there is no market for such things. if you create a mod for the game though, as in a module with your custom content in it, ITS NOT ALLOWED to sell the mod you made for the game, WITHOUT an contract with the GAME developers itself.

thats why mod creators normally take donations, and dont sell their mods.

[Chikuwu]

Originally posted by Nerevar's Butler's Brother:

Making money off of a game that isn't your without any permission? I'm pretty sure it's illegal for all games.

He isnt talking about models in the game, but about selling models he make himself for people. Thats fully allowed since its all created by him, from scratch. So in a sense, hes not using ANY content from the game, that developers have rights for, at all. thats fully allowed, since his model can be used universally anywhere.

But there is no market for that sort of thing, because its known as modding and its 99% of the time free content.

[CURE]

Thanks, I had no intention of doing so in the first place. I was just curious because my friend was asked if he would sell some of his models. I contended that it would be illegal to sell them but I guess I was mistaken.

[Chikuwu]

Originally posted by Cure Optimism:

Thanks, I had no intention of doing so in the first place. I was just curious because my friend was asked if he would sell some of his models. I contended that it would be illegal to sell them but I guess I was mistaken.

Just tell him there is literallly no market for such a thing.

theres a load of super experienced and top quality modelers around enough, who do all kinds of work for free.

They do it for free and EXPAND their CV and portfolio with their work, if theyre aiming to be someday a modeler or a content creator for a game developer.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Cure Optimism:

I've seen people create their own custom models for this game but they never sell them. Is it because it's illegal? Can someone with knowledge of modding explain this to me?

You can sell your 3D models, as long as they don't require or make use of any proprietary file formats, rigging, animations, or copyrighted materials, etc... You can not, however, call them "Warband" anything nor can you use any other copyrighted or trademarked name/logo.

You can not sell "altered" original models, either directly or indirectly. (Reskins/retopos/rerigs/etc)

In short: No, you can't sell something as a Warband game asset using proprietary file types or relying on proprietary files for its functionality. BUT, you could sell a model/textures/etc that could easily be used in Warband.

What some "professional" modders do is very simple - They sell their labor to the mod creator instead of selling actual models/game-assets. This is a private arrangement and since the mod in question isn't being "sold", there's no issue with legal wrangling, especially since the game is designed to be modded and modding it does not involve cracking the executable, but only using existing, allowed, assets. A person's "labor" is much less restricted than what they may actuall produce with that labor.

One legal hurdle that is open to interpretation are "donation" schemes. It doesn't matter if a product has a "for sale" sticker on it or a "donation" sticker. If the producer is benefitting financially from the construction and release of a product specifically designed for a third-party licensed product, then murky water is being waded into...


I am not an attorney nor am I qualified to give legal advice. When in doubt, pay a competent lawyer to advise you.

[Chikuwu]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Originally posted by Cure Optimism:

I've seen people create their own custom models for this game but they never sell them. Is it because it's illegal? Can someone with knowledge of modding explain this to me?

You can sell your 3D models, as long as they don't require or make use of any proprietary file formats, rigging, animations, or copyrighted materials, etc... You can not, however, call them "Warband" anything nor can you use any other copyrighted or trademarked name/logo.

You can not sell "altered" original models, either directly or indirectly. (Reskins/retopos/rerigs/etc)

In short: No, you can't sell something as a Warband game asset using proprietary file types or relying on proprietary files for its functionality. BUT, you could sell a model/textures/etc that could easily be used in Warband.

What some "professional" modders do is very simple - They sell their labor to the mod creator instead of selling actual models/game-assets. This is a private arrangement and since the mod in question isn't being "sold", there's no issue with legal wrangling, especially since the game is designed to be modded and modding it does not involve cracking the executable, but only using existing, allowed, assets. A person's "labor" is much less restricted than what they may actuall produce with that labor.

One legal hurdle that is open to interpretation are "donation" schemes. It doesn't matter if a product has a "for sale" sticker on it or a "donation" sticker. If the producer is benefitting financially from the construction and release of a product specifically designed for a third-party licensed product, then murky water is being waded into...


I am not an attorney nor am I qualified to give legal advice. When in doubt, pay a competent lawyer to advise you.

yeah the donation scheme has always been whatnot odd, but game developers 99% of the time allow it because it actually gets them more players.

If they would start flaming and taking down mods, they just anger their customers, that would literally get their company into some neck deep poop.

Situation: A game developer takes down all mods that are gaining money trough donations. they discontinue mod developement, which in turn affects the player count of the game, and also means there aint going to be any more higher quality mods going around. also affects the company in a long run, and makes the game buyers avoid their next game, because they know theyre going to not let modders do what they wish.

Modders are a big FREE source of income for developers like Bethesda, and Taleworlds. If there wouldnt be mods, many wouldnt buy their games.

Although Bethesda already affected their own image really badly with the paid mod scam, where literally you would need to have a super quality module and millions of downloads before you could get as much as you would get with donations, only because they took so big piece of the winnings.

[Radioman]

I am pretty sure its Ilegal, also noone would buy them.
And it would be a pretty ♥♥♥♥ move to sell your Modifications while the howle M&B Mod Community is doing everything without a pay.

[Chikuwu]

Originally posted by (68th Lights LCpl) Mr Mundy:

I am pretty sure its Ilegal, also noone would buy them.
And it would be a pretty ♥♥♥♥ move to sell your Modifications while the howle M&B Mod Community is doing everything without a pay.

it aint illegal if you dont use any content from the game, but create the model, textures, and everything yourself. if the model and stuff is created by you, and its NOT dependand of the game (as in its a raw model and textures, ready for a modder to use for example. He COULD sell his work for modders of the M&B community, which would in exchange use his models for money. THAT would be fully allowed, as thats a modder buying WORK from an creator, undependant of the game.

and it wouldnt be a "♥♥♥♥ move" But more of an dumb move, since no one would buy them. There is thousands of good experienced modelers (Im myself an lower than average modder) and you would need to be unique modeler of such skill, to be able to ask for money for your work in a sense that someone woudl BUY your models.

[Sohei]

Even accepting donations for a mod can be a violation because it can be considered profiting off of someone else's protected intellectual property. To be completely safe you need to refrain from using any part of the assets of the original property or not profit from it in any way. If the mod you are creating also involves the intellectual property of a third party the restrictions are even more strict to avoid a lawsuit.

Giving away a mod for free that uses the software assets in an approved way is okay. Selling assets that could then be added to the software by users themselves may also be okay depending on how it is done. As others have said, it must not have any dependencies to the software or contain any assets from it.

The way I have seen others do this is by selling completely custom and unique item models and textures which can then be dropped in to the game files by the user. This was usually done for NW regiments looking to make custom units.

I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice.

[Chikuwu]

Originally posted by Sohei:

Even accepting donations for a mod can be a violation because it can be considered profiting off of someone else's protected intellectual property. To be completely safe you need to refrain from using any part of the assets of the original property or not profit from it in any way. If the mod you are creating also involves the intellectual property of a third party the restrictions are even more strict to avoid a lawsuit. Giving away a mod for free that uses the software assets in an approved way is okay. Selling assets that could then be added to the software by users themselves may also be okay depending on how it is done. As others have said, it must not have any dependencies to the software or contain any assets from it. The way I have seen others do this is by selling completely custom and unique item models and textures which can then be dropped in to the game files by the user. I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice.

Accepting donation money is just that, GREY AREA. as i already said about it. Its something that drives the games sales, and thats the only reason developers like Bethesda or Taleworlds havent touched it, because it would affect negatively to their whole company image to be such a ♥♥♥♥ and not let talented modders ask for donations.

It goes like this.

Game has a huge modding community --> Modder accepts donations --> Developer asks them to stop the donation ring --> Modder stops modding and updating his mods --> community rage --> negative reviews for the game, and for the company --> bad image --> no one buys their new games.

thats the only wise explanation i can think off.

[Sohei]

Originally posted by I||I Chiku:

Accepting donation money is just that, GREY AREA. as i already said about it. Its something that drives the games sales, and thats the only reason developers like Bethesda or Taleworlds havent touched it, because it would affect negatively to their whole company image to be such a ♥♥♥♥ and not let talented modders ask for donations.

It can be a clear violation that is tolerated but that does not mean that you are safe to do it. You may get away with it but you may not. One huge potential problem with it is that mods usually include some content mad eby other modders. In this case accepting a donation is also profiting off of their work. This means you are open to a lawsuit not just from the game right owners but also anybody that contrinbuted a single line of code or single texture or model. There is some gray area for some things about this such as modifying core assets where the code is not shared or exposed. Accepting donations is not really a gray area though - it is a clear violation that you may just happen to get away with for now.

By the way, there have been some modders who have been warned to avoid accepting donations. The rights owner may or may not be upset about it but still give a warning. Part of the reason for this is to draw a line so all are treated the same without a contract. Part of this is also a legal exercise to maintain full legal protection of the IP. It can be argued that the protection of an IP has been abandoned if they neglect to enforce violations.

[Chikuwu]

Originally posted by Sohei:

Originally posted by I||I Chiku:

Accepting donation money is just that, GREY AREA. as i already said about it. Its something that drives the games sales, and thats the only reason developers like Bethesda or Taleworlds havent touched it, because it would affect negatively to their whole company image to be such a ♥♥♥♥ and not let talented modders ask for donations.

It can be a clear violation that is tolerated but that does not mean that you are safe to do it. You may get away with it but you may not. One huge potential problem with it is that mods usually include some content mad eby other modders. In this case accepting a donation is also profiting off of their work. This means you are open to a lawsuit not just from the game right owners but also anybody that contrinbuted a single line of code or single texture or model. There is some gray area for some things about this such as modifying core assets where the code is not shared or exposed. Accepting donations is not really a gray area though - it is a clear violation that you may just happen to get away with for now.

Well i havent yet seen a game developer file a lawsuit upon an Modder who has gotten them more customers.

OF COURSE if theres a guy whos selling the game itself or parts of its content ive seen getting filed a lawsuit, But its really bad PR image for a game developer to file a lawsuit JUST because of donations.

They of course, could do it just like that, but it would affect their image so badly that the PR wouldnt be able to fix such a thing. its an open attack kind of against the modders, and same with the community, even though it would be in some way justified by the law.

But im 99,9% sure they arent going to do such a move since it would push their company into a downspiral of bankcruptcy.

[Sohei]

Originally posted by I||I Chiku:

Well i havent yet seen a game developer file a lawsuit upon an Modder who has gotten them more customers.

Most of the existing modding community is aware of the rules or should be. Some of the modders also have gotten pretty upset themselves when their own assets have been used without permission. There is the law, there is the EULA, and then there is also the etiquette that modders voluntarily agree to abide by. These all coexist and when people step over the line either intentionally or unintentionally they tend to get called out and it tends to get corrected long before any legal action is necessary.

[Chikuwu]

Originally posted by Sohei:

Originally posted by I||I Chiku:

Well i havent yet seen a game developer file a lawsuit upon an Modder who has gotten them more customers.

Most of the existing modding community is aware of the rules or should be. Some of the modders also have gotten pretty upset themselves when their own assets have been used without permission. There is the law, there is the EULA, and then there is also the etiquette that modders voluntarily agree to abide by. These all coexist and when people step over the line either intentionally or unintentionally they tend to get called out and it tends to get corrected long before any legal action is necessary.

True, But still, being the most important point is, that the modders are a free source of income for the game developer company.

If we take in consideration a taleworlds game modder, for example AcoK.

The mod has most likely brought thousands of buyers into the scene, if not even more, just becausue of the mod.

im quite sure a company can watch something like that go trough the fingers if the modder gets few hundred bucks and they get tens of thousands of bucks just because a modder did so good work :D

i like to think that like this.

Company makes a game --> Company notices a modder is bringing in FREE MONEY for them stable rates, in form of new game owners --> they let donations go by --> More buyers for their next game, because of just it.

The risk of them filing a lawsuit openly against every modder who happens to ask for donations from users, and how much bad PR that would cause, would be so big loss.

Companies want money. they lose money by filing lawsuits against modders, at least those who do everything else right BUT ask for donations in the same, in form of less buyers for next game, less constant amount of players in their current games, and it might even go as far as bankcruptcy at this point, if they mess up their PR so bad.

There have been games who have filed lawsuits to some modders, and their community have half instantly dwindled to almost none, and they try everything from changing the companys name to fixing their PR image, but they cant.

THE point being, what im trying to tell in some form, is that "A company, which is there to profit, would never do something that would negatively affect their NOW good PR image, neither the stable sales, JUST because someone is taking donations for making awesome content to their game."

They wont throw away free money. its a company after all. and even if they would start filing lawsuits, and those would pass on and they would win them, They couldnt get more than few thousand bucks out of a young modder who just happened to ask for donations, and in exchange they just lost 20k buyers.

TL:DR They wont file lawsuits because they would lose money.