How do I use the rhodoks

[Pititan]

I've always heard that the rhodoks are good at defence and that their crossbowmen are the best...but I've not seen that yet... I faced of against 39 swadians (9 of which were cav), and I had 45 men..most of which were spearmen and veteran spearmen with a couple of crossbowmen...these 9 horses managed to ♥♥♥♥ up my whole defence... I WAS ON TOP OF A FOREST HILL!!!! AND 9 SWADIAN MAN-AT-ARMS MANAGED TO GET THROUGH THE♥♥♥♥♥♥TON OF SPEARS AND DESTROY US!!!!! How does one use these spearmen effectively...the 7 Sargeants take care of themselves, but the spearmen are trash (they die to looters constantly)...the crossbowmen are decent, but not viable to have a party of only crossbowmen....

How do.i use these guys effectively, cuz my casualties are off the charts lmfao...

[Şeyma]

spears are unbalanced

[Horcerer]

No unit as low ranking as the spearmen will be able to defeat a Man-at-arms. Average rhodok melee is poor, but their sergeants and sharpshooters are practically the best in the game.

Thats not to say average rhodok troops arent worth it. Spearmen and crossbowmen are excellently cost effective in fortresses, but for field battles you need sergeants and sharpshooters.

[Tuidjy]

There are many ways to stop a cavalry charge, but none of them is really cost effective if it relies on troops with spears. Basically, a 1.35m spear is perfectly useless against a 1.9m or 2.4m lance wielded by an armored man on an armored horse.

The Rhodocks have a chance to spawn with pikes which are long enough, but Native has no pre-existing formations to put those pikes to work. You can 'roll your own', by standing ground, pulling your troops closer to each other, etc... but unless you are playing a mod with better formations, and enhanced spear damage, you will be at a disadvantage.

So, what can you do?

1) Run interference, with your mounted character, your mounted companions, or a small division of mercenary cavalry. It takes very little to disrupt or lead astray a charge.
2) Choose terrain that is truly crippling for cavalry. No, not a rolling hill. A sheer cliff, a lake deep enough to slow horses, or the bed dug by a river. Something that brings horses to a crawl.
3) Make your own obstruction. Dismounted cheap troops do wonders - low tier Khergits, mid tier Vageirs who can spawn with free horses, etc. Little help for Rhodocks, I know.

But none of the above is the best way.

The best way is to have path-finding and engineering at 10(+4) and never fight the enemy in the field. Your elite troops have decent athletics, so just avoid the enemy in the field, and hit their siege ladder castles. Take those in literally minutes, and leave the easiest to defend relatively weak. Then watch the enemy campaign slowly bounce between fortifications that you are taking on the run. Join defensive sieges that you can win, and retake the walls you lose.

Eventually the enemy campaign will be weakened, and will give up.

[Pititan]

Originally posted by Tuidjy:

There are many ways to stop a cavalry charge, but none of them is really cost effective if it relies on troops with spears. Basically, a 1.35m spear is perfectly useless against a 1.9m or 2.4m lance wielded by an armored man on an armored horse.

The Rhodocks have a chance to spawn with pikes which are long enough, but Native has no pre-existing formations to put those pikes to work. You can 'roll your own', by standing ground, pulling your troops closer to each other, etc... but unless you are playing a mod with better formations, and enhanced spear damage, you will be at a disadvantage.

So, what can you do?

1) Run interference, with your mounted character, your mounted companions, or a small division of mercenary cavalry. It takes very little to disrupt or lead astray a charge.
2) Choose terrain that is truly crippling for cavalry. No, not a rolling hill. A sheer cliff, a lake deep enough to slow horses, or the bed dug by a river. Something that brings horses to a crawl.
3) Make your own obstruction. Dismounted cheap troops do wonders - low tier Khergits, mid tier Vageirs who can spawn with free horses, etc. Little help for Rhodocks, I know.

But none of the above is the best way.

The best way is to have path-finding and engineering at 10(+4) and never fight the enemy in the field. Your elite troops have decent athletics, so just avoid the enemy in the field, and hit their siege ladder castles. Take those in literally minutes, and leave the easiest to defend relatively weak. Then watch the enemy campaign slowly bounce between fortifications that you are taking on the run. Join defensive sieges that you can win, and retake the walls you lose.

Eventually the enemy campaign will be weakened, and will give up.

That's the problem.... they're too situational.... I want troops who are versatile, and the rhodoks really aren't... I would of thought that the Spears would be capable of stopping a couple of cav troops but they don't....any opponent with any mounted troop just destroys us...which isn't good when when both of the neighbors (sarranaids and swadia) have decent heavy cav....like, I just spent the last 30 minutes save-scumming to scape a sarranid party(one was 35 and the other 43..78 guys in total(could have taken them out with 30 knights)) with a couple of manlukes(like 9-12)...I have 57 guys in my party 9 Sargeants and the rest are bet spearman and a couple of crossbows, I could have more Sargeants, but the spearman is just sword-fodder. And Everytime, the terrain was perfect!!, Hilly, forests, cliffs and ♥♥♥♥...but NO!!!!! No matter the strat, the 9 manlukes slaughter my infantry line and then move on to the crossbowmen....what's left after the 9 manlukes are gone is picked by the infantry... How did I get out of this sticky situation??... I had to turn on cheat menu and teleport, y? Because anything else would lead to me loosing my 9 Sargeants that I have spent nearly 170 days to acquire....

♥♥♥♥ THIS FACTION!!!

[Tuidjy]

Originally posted by pititan:

♥♥♥♥ THIS FACTION!!!

Different strokes for different folks.

Some people swear by the Rhodocks.

I'm with you, though. Most boring faction, and completely unsuited for my play style. On the other hand, I prefer Vaegirs, which are by many considered bottom tier (with the Khergits).

[Fenrir]

Every time I play pure Rhodoks I think to my self how awesome it would be if spearmen were able to set up a real phalanx. Though without ai using flanking/pincer strategy it would probably be a bit too powerful.
Hoping it will be a feature in bannerlord.

[Tuidjy]

Originally posted by Fenrir:

Every time I play pure Rhodoks I think to my self how awesome it would be if spearmen were able to set up a real phalanx. Though without ai using flanking/pincer strategy it would probably be a bit too powerful.
Hoping it will be a feature in bannerlord.

Do you own Viking Conquest? In Viking Conquest, a shield wall of elite spearmen, such as the Saxon nobles, is a really good example of a formation that is impenetrable from the front.

If you compress it once or twice, it becomes even harder to attack from the front, and of course, this also reduces its width, which makes it easier to flank. But when you set up an elite shield wall on a bridge map, it's a veritable bloodbath.

[SereneK]

If it's Floris, put 5 Slaver Chiefs in front of the crossbowmen. Then surround those elephants with Nord warriors.

It's almost cheating.

[ÄmJii]

Rhodoks are slow as molasses, if you're going for pure Rhodok style then you're in for long defensive fights. Ideally you'll want your infantry engaging/distracting cavalry while crossbows chew them up.

If you're up against lots of archers, consider issuing "Use Blunt Weapons" (they'll pull out their shields) and "Stand Closer" commands while your crossbowmen returns fire.

Archers vs Cavalry: "Stand Closer" once, so that stray cavalrymen can't just hit&run without retaliation. Archers are obviously weak vs Cavalry in melee, so you'll wanna stick them close to your infantry units.

Infantry vs Infantry: Put your spearmen in a line with "Hold this position" command, then "Stand Closer" ONLY once: Otherwise your spears will get collide with your friendlies and you lose the flank & reach advantage (specifically, when Bad Guy A is engaging Spearman A, you'll want Spearman B poking Bad Guy A's ribs from safe distance).
You may wanna practise this on Custom Battles, I've managed to win Rhodoks vs Nords with equally sized infantry armies.

Sergeants: "Stand Closer" three times, always. They have short-ranged weapons and big shields, they're perfect for making a roman turtle formation. If cavalry tries to bum-rush your turtle formation, they'll get stuck and cut down quickly. You still might lose some troops, but this is still very favorable exchange.
If archers try to wear out your turtle formation, they'll run out of ammo and barely make a dent.

[OldMemes.biz]

Rhodoks all day erry day

[Fenrir]

Originally posted by Tuidjy:

Originally posted by Fenrir:

Every time I play pure Rhodoks I think to my self how awesome it would be if spearmen were able to set up a real phalanx. Though without ai using flanking/pincer strategy it would probably be a bit too powerful.
Hoping it will be a feature in bannerlord.

Do you own Viking Conquest? In Viking Conquest, a shield wall of elite spearmen, such as the Saxon nobles, is a really good example of a formation that is impenetrable from the front.

If you compress it once or twice, it becomes even harder to attack from the front, and of course, this also reduces its width, which makes it easier to flank. But when you set up an elite shield wall on a bridge map, it's a veritable bloodbath.

I never really tried VC since bote the press and steam reviews are generally quite negative and warband + mods is still really entertaining. Would you say VC is worth full price?
That sounds pretty cool though. Do they also fully extend their spears forward and stay in formation once enemies are in range? It always bothered me how the ai never really understands how to use a spear or lance at maximum range to apply full damage. Especially Mamlukes seem to prefer poking with their lance from 30cm distance.

[ULTRA]

Originally posted by pititan:

but not viable to have a party of only crossbowmen....

Incorrect

Just have a party of like 2/3 crossbowmen and 1/3 infantry, smash them as closely together as possible on top of a hill so that the knights can't get through, and have them all shoot at once

btw if your party is purely veteran crossbowmen or sharpshooters, just tell them to hold fire and if they're clumped together then they are almost certain to have a 100% survival rate from an uphill cavalry charge, at which rate they can shoot the horsemen point blank

[Pititan]

Originally posted by Tuidjy:

I'm with you, though. Most boring faction, and completely unsuited for my play style. On the other hand, I prefer Vaegirs, which are by many considered bottom tier (with the Khergits).

The veigers really aren't bad...they might be considered low tier because of their low defence...but they do have good offensive capabilities (after all, two handed weapons pack a punch).

Originally posted by ÄmJii:

If you're up against lots of archers, consider issuing "Use Blunt Weapons" (they'll pull out their shields) and "Stand Closer" commands while your crossbowmen returns fire.

Archers vs Cavalry: "Stand Closer" once, so that stray cavalrymen can't just hit&run without retaliation. Archers are obviously weak vs Cavalry in melee, so you'll wanna stick them close to your infantry units.

Infantry vs Infantry: Put your spearmen in a line with "Hold this position" command, then "Stand Closer" ONLY once: Otherwise your spears will get collide with your friendlies and you lose the flank & reach advantage (specifically, when Bad Guy A is engaging Spearman A, you'll want Spearman B poking Bad Guy A's ribs from safe distance).
You may wanna practise this on Custom Battles, I've managed to win Rhodoks vs Nords with equally sized infantry armies.

Sergeants: "Stand Closer" three times, always. They have short-ranged weapons and big shields, they're perfect for making a roman turtle formation. If cavalry tries to bum-rush your turtle formation, they'll get stuck and cut down quickly. You still might lose some troops, but this is still very favorable exchange.
If archers try to wear out your turtle formation, they'll run out of ammo and barely make a dent.

Tried most of these already, and the veteran spearman (I think it's because of the lack of shields) always gets ♥♥♥♥♥♥, which is unfortunate because they are the predecessor to the Sargeants...
Edit: does the spearmen have shields?

Originally posted by Mountain Man:

Incorrect

Just have a party of like 2/3 crossbowmen and 1/3 infantry, smash them as closely together as possible on top of a hill so that the knights can't get through, and have them all shoot at once

btw if your party is purely veteran crossbowmen or sharpshooters, just tell them to hold fire and if they're clumped together then they are almost certain to have a 100% survival rate from an uphill cavalry charge, at which rate they can shoot the horsemen point blank

Now that I have a more extensive collection of crossbowmen, I have noticed that they are better than most of the spearmen.

[lionhart]

Honestly I think many of the people who profess to love the Rhodoks mainly like them because they look cool. And they do look cool, but personally I never use them for anything except castle defense.

[Twinkletoes]

Have not played native in a long time, remind me.

Do Rhodoks go full melee at veteran level?

Rhodoks do work. But like most factions your fighting to get a small core of elites(as it with ANY faction, its just more pronounced in Rhodoks).

You don't play the nords for the trained footmen, you don't play swadia for their milita. You don't play Rhodoks for their spearmen.

Most factions have to go through this hurdle(high casulties at lower level), but like you said seargents handle themselves. And sharpshooters do as well.