♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Swords and different numbers of hands. (Perisno)

[Weizen1988]

So google came up with several different answers, and nothing ever provides evidence.

Ive been told the weapon stat change is anything from 15% to 35% less damage and speed when using ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ weapons one handed, what is it actually? Has anyone actually confirmed it? Basically situation is ive got a 50 damage one handed weapon, and a 60 damage One/Two handed (Getting specific, im picking in Perisno between Ancient Golden Warblade with cut 50 speed 108 reach 93 and Ancient Perisno Kingblade with cut 60, speed 90, reach 138) Im suspecting its not worth changing to the kingblade if I intend to use my shield, slight damage increase of like 1 point, but slower and longer.

[sjeggy6]

speed is a multiplier of damage :) you get a damage boost by swinging faster and from the right angle, not too long nor too short when swinging will give a speed boost

i hope that answers the question though it is confusing, but bastard swords tend to not do well one handed because of the way it swings, i always get penalties

[Weizen1988]

I know what speed is and does, I didnt even ask that, so no, it really didnt answer the question.

I asked what the penalty for using bastard weapons one handed is. Guides, the wiki, and posts claim anything from 15% stat decrease, to 35% stat decrease, it isnt from the weapon slowing down, but an actual decrease in the value of both stats. I am wondering which value is the accurate one.

[|AyyLmao|]

You could do some testing and be a hero

[Weizen1988]

Originally posted by |AyyLmao|:

You could do some testing and be a hero

If it turns out no one has done this, I may have to. Its not terribly important, but I dislike missing information.

[EthanT]

Where's Tuijdy when you need him? I believe it's around 20%. I'll look around, hang on.

[EthanT]

35% in native, differs across mods.

[Weizen1988]

Originally posted by EthanT:

35% in native, differs across mods.

Really, they seem to know just about everything about this game. Anyway that explains why ive run into so many different numbers, hadnt considered it varied by mod. Thank you. Happen to know it for Perisno? Ive looked around and not found much. If not no big deal, ill stick with current weapon for now, got a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of samurai guys to deal with before I start blowing money on getting an extra 1-2 dps or anything like that.

[Morkonan]

Just a note: Unlike some melee combat simulators, Mount&Blade cares about weapon speed, where you hit, what part of the blade hits and weapon reach is a huge deal. Also - Not all mods have the same combat animations, which can effect weapon choice, and many mods change the stats of standard weapons, making predictions in general lines of questioning very difficult.

What all that means is pretty simple - Your weapon choice will be meaningful, how you use it is extremely important, and the ideal weapon for you is dependent on a great many variables that can't be predicted by third-parties.

These are all good things. There is no "one set of gear to rule them all" in Mount and Blade: Warband. However, there is one issue that isn't really debatable - During sieges, if you don't use a shield, you'll likely wish you had. :)

[Weizen1988]

Jesus Christ, again, I know what speed does. I am not confused about speed or its impact on damage, those are all things I already know, I am not a new player. No one is helping by answering all these things I didnt ask. Clear?

I wanted one piece of information, I do not care about other impacts on damage. All I am looking for is the numbers relating to use of one handed/two handed weapons in one hand, because the stats given are for two handed.

You even mention it in your post "dependent on a great many variables" Yes lovely, Im asking about one of those variables, it is a number, a percentage, which is applied when using a bastard weapon in one hand, I want to know what it is. Am I still not clear?

[Shrapnel]

nice attitude, Im sure people are falling over themselves to help you

[Timothy]

Originally posted by EthanT:

Where's Tuijdy when you need him? I believe it's around 20%. I'll look around, hang on.

Who's Tujidy?

[Кiт Максим]

yeah if you write totally unrealted stuff you help a lot
PS i believe they have a set of phrases for help threads, like "deres no da best stuff", "figure it by urself feg" and etc

[Weizen1988]

Yeah, I pretty much get the feeling no one knows unless Tuidjy or Sohei happen to, maybe one will stop in.

Originally posted by Shrapnel:

nice attitude, Im sure people are falling over themselves to help you

Im nice to the people actually helping, but I hate having to repeat myself for the other people who cant bother to read what I asked and start telling me a bunch of irrelevant stuff about how speed impacts damage, twice. Literally both of them provided the same information, which i still didnt need. Im sure they are both fine people and all that, but their answers provided no help.

[Tuidjy]

In Native, the penalty for using a bаsтагd sword with a shield is 35% on speed and 35% on damage. You also get the same penalty for using a two handed weapon, or a bаsтагd sword (with or without shield) on horseback.

Yes, 35% is huge. It is also hardcoded quite deep, and is very hard to change. There are ways in which those penalties are changed in mods, but you will not believe how tricky and convoluted that is. (It involves multiple definitions in item_types, and a script to switch them on the fly)

In general, bаsтагd swords are not worth it unless:
- two-handed is your best proficiency (or you would be using a one handed sword)
- you have a decent one-handed proficiency (or you'll be helpless with a shield)
- you need the shield to protect yourself from arrows (in melee, your sword would be enough)
- the bаsтагd sword in question is not too much worse than the best two handed sword

If you are a one handed fighter, even considering using a bаsтагd sword instead is lunacy. Even if you are willing to accept the damage and speed penalty, if you lose your shield, you will automatically switch to the two handed style, and be at a huge disadvantage.

If you are a two handed fighter, in most cases you are better off using your shield with a free hand, and switching to a dedicated two hander once you get in close.

Personally I use bаsтагd swords in only two cases:
1) If, as a one-handed fighter, I'm playing a mod in which a bаsтагd sword happens to be so overpowered that even with the penalties, it outshines the best one handers. Of my favorites, there's a grand total of one such mod, and I still carry a backup one hander for when I lose my shield (as a page in my prayer book, so that I do not waste a slot on it.)
2) If, as a two handed fighter, I'm fighting in melee on horseback with a significant chance of taking ranged fire, for example, in Prophecy of Pendor. I'd be suffering the 35% penalty anyway, so it matters a lot less than usual. I'd still carry my favorite two hander, namely a Ruby flamberge.

----------

I know nothing to suggest that Perisno penalty is less than the usual 35%. My Perisno character is a one handed fighter with a decent two handed proficiency, so I will give it a test, next time I come across a bаsтагd sword.

As an aside, in real life, my favorite weapon is a longsword, i.e. what many call a bаsтагd sword. Warband's modeling does not do that Queen of swords justice. It's not that the 35% penalty is too high, it is not. It is that the stats on longswords and two handed swords are not as superior to the stats of one handers as they should be.

[Morkonan]

One definite advantage of such one-haded wielding is weapon reach. I generally play mounted and very "tanky" in the field and, with expertise and charge bonus, I don't really notice the penalty. I can also recover in the saddle more quickly for the next target, not having to lean over as much. (That's just my anecdotal style there, really.) In some situations during sieges, being able to stab through to reach targets on the other side of your own troops in a press can be an advantage. (Though, I prefer to keep a spear/polearm for that sort of thing.)

In tournaments, it's not necessarily an advantage unless your skills are up to par in case/when your shield breaks. Speed can be a real factor, there, IMO.