Question about elemental damage.

[wulfster42]

Hi:)

I was recently fighting a boss, the ugly lady one....and had been running with twin swords that add fire and lightning damage, with lightning echant spell on my weapon, and the warrior of the west equipment (more lightning damage).

I died to her the first time and the damage from lightning had been pathetic (like 10 extra a hit or something) even with all that on her, boosts etc.

So I figured (no clue if I'm right) that she was resistant to lightning or something).

I switched to an Odachi I had, that boosted water damage by 40%. Hadn't even leveled it/familiarized it up. I switched my enchant to water, and fought her again. This time the water damage was over 100 (like 140?).

The base damage of the odachi was also significantly higher though at 510 (even with max familiarity the twin swords was under 400)..think 360.

So my question is, does the damage rating on the sword affect the elemental damage you do? I figured faster was better for elemental damage, but the larger amount of damage per hit from the odachi WAY made up for the larger number of hits from the twin swords, and the difference in number of hits wasn't that large.

Have noticed the backstab damage is actually higher with the twin swords even though it has a lower damage total (one shotting most things, versus needing to hit with the odachi again afterwards).

elemental damage is a bit confusing though. I have 1 of each of the spells, and 2 of fire and lightning. Fire is nice for the DoT affect, lightning i got for the bonus from warrior of the west set etc (but have not been that impressed with it tbh).

My most useful spells so far have honestly been the slow down spell and the guardian summon spell. Wish there was a way to make casting them a bit faster, but other then that, they totally rock.

[Deostades]

Elemental damage does scale with general weapon damage and with getting higher level weapons.

That said, Elemental damage on it's own will always be fairly insignificant. What is useful is inflicting an elemental status effect, as those are always useful and if you can get two or more going, Confuse the target. Confusion is an awesome status effect that completely removes Ki for Yokai, lowers defense, and increases stagger.

Even the individual elemental statuses are great. Electric slows (like Sloth, and it's even stackable with Sloth), Fire causes DoT (that's pretty good even in the later difficulties), Water lowers defence in a big way, Wind lowers Attack in a big way, and Earth increases Ki usage to the point that Ki breaking is a fair bit easier.

One of the Onmyo Mystic Arts (which you'll gain access to in the 5th or 6th region) increases casting speed and makes self-targetted spell tags apply instantly without an animation. And Sloth and GS Talismans will always be top-tier, with Weakness nudging out Sloth by WotN and support spells like Kekkai, Extraction and Pleidas taking front stage alongside Carnage and/or Leeching.

[Deathwing Zero]

The point of elemental damage isn't so much damage, as the effect it procs, or, ideally, the effect that procs when 2 element debuffs are on the enemy at once. In a video I watched someone hit for 999,999 damage and it only did 14,790 fire damage along side the normal physical damage.

The extra damage is just a minor bonus, and really shouldn't be built around. You can, of course, but it wouldn't be as effective as a normal kind of build.

[wulfster42]

Ahh cool, thanks Deostades:) Didn't know about the status effect, I wonder if the dual element twin swords causes both effects and confuses enemies, it doesn't seem to, but it says it's dual elements fire and electric.

I used water on the ugly lady boss and it did WAY more damage (made the fight last half as long or less). Part was the weapon change (to odachi from twin swords) I think, but maybe the loss of defense from the water status effect had a big impact as well. Went from like 10 damage per hit of electricity to 130 or so from water...it was a huge difference.

Can't wait for the instant cast and casting speed increase bonus. My magic stat is...26? Something like that already, but I am going to boost it some more eventually. Right now I can run with 2 sloth + 2 summon guardian + 2 elemental and 1 regeneration...which already seems like alot. Magic is my highest stat by far in fact...cause i really find it makes the most difference (that I have noticed).

Not impressed by the ninja bombs so far though. I have the second tier of them (I can have up to 4), but eventually I'll get the 3rd tier as well, and the ones that boost the number of second and third tier bombs. My dex..and ninja power isn't that high (15? I think, not enough for the last training mission yet which I think needs 20), so that may be partially why. i like having good ranged damage options (Guardian spirit + bombs) but was hoping the higher tier bombs would do more then around 100 damage.

I may go back to electric though now that I know it slows and stacks with sloth. The west armor set i have boosts damage vs electrified enemies by 20% or so I think it was, so even if the electric damage itself seems to blow....the bonus dmg vs enemies with that statis effect is probably worth it.

[wulfster42]

引用自 Deathwing Zero：

The point of elemental damage isn't so much damage, as the effect it procs, or, ideally, the effect that procs when 2 element debuffs are on the enemy at once. In a video I watched someone hit for 999,999 damage and it only did 14,790 fire damage along side the normal physical damage.

The extra damage is just a minor bonus, and really shouldn't be built around. You can, of course, but it wouldn't be as effective as a normal kind of build.

Ahh makes sense. In this last case though I was hitting for almost as much with the water elemental damage as my normal damage, but yeah, for electricity at least, the damage seems to be tiny. If it slows enemies more though....totally worth it hehe. I already love fire damage for the DoT. Getting more then one effect on enemies seems totally worth it.

Not sure if the dual weapon effect ( fire + lightning on my twin swords) actually applies both debuffs though, and/or if using a different enchantment on my weapon (say wind as well) would apply all 3 on the enemy. Can you have water AND fire on the same target or does water put out the fire lol (cause if I had to choose 3, against bosses who I don't want hitting me at all), it would be fire/lightning/water for optimum damage output.

I think I remember that you can upgrade a weapon to a higher level...if you max out the higher level weapon first or something, so I could probably upgrade my twin elemental twin swords to my current weapon level and keep using them that way. With what you are saying about elemental effects, that seems like by far the best mod i have seen so far.....and I love the twin swords:)

[Deathwing Zero]

Not sure which boss you're talking about exactly, but you can check their elemental weakness and resistances in game in the Yokai Illustrations page. From the sounds of it you're talking about the Ogress, who is indeed weak to Water and Earth, and resistant to Fire, Lightning, Poison, and Paralysis.

EDIT:
Yes those dual swords will apply both fire and lightning status, but I think it will do so slowly. Using a talisman for another element will override the effects of your swords and do only the one element. So if you used Wind, it would only apply wind until your talisman wears off. I'm not sure if you can do fire and water. I've never actually tried. I wouldn't think it would work though, since if you're on fire you can just dash/roll a couple times to remove it, or once if you're standing in some water.

[wulfster42]

Aha!! yep, she looked like an ogress lol. And yeah, she took almost no damage from lightning (didn't even notice her taking fire damage at all actually).

Luckily I had the bull as my familiar though (he is so great vs revenants) and he was earth. And After lightning did no damage I figured she was resistant and went the opposite way (usually water is strong vs lightning for some reason), and that seemed to really work.

Didn't know i could look up the weaknesses from the yokai illustrations page, I will check that out next time. Thanks:)

She wasn't really that bad, I almost had her the first time but she did some crazy jump spin attack thing that on shotted me, and I was totally using the wrong weapon and elements against her so the fight took awhile. She was not very safe to use my summon guardian spirit attacks against (they take too long to cast and she can jump towards you quickly even slothed).

First time I went with my twin swords (lower base attack but +fire and lightning damage) and lightning enchantment on my weapon as well (no clue if they stack but now that I know about confusion and status effects I'll always do a different element anyway).

Second time I used odachi which had longer reach and had +40% water damage, and water enchanted my weapon as well. Damage was WAY higher (both from the weapon itself and from the element). Probably now that I know about the status effect because it reduces the enemies defense:)

So for now, i'm gonna figure out how to upgrade the level of my lightning/fire twin swords and normally add water to it as well (switch to 4 water). See how the damage is with that:)

[Deathwing Zero]

You can upgrade your dual swords at the blacksmith by soul matching them with other dual swords. It doesn't have to be the same exact swords, but if it is the same ones it will be cheaper. Be careful soul matching though, the more you soul match an item, the more expensive it gets, and it gets expensive extremely quickly.

[wulfster42]

Oh shucks, so if I put another element on them, it takes the other two off:(

Hmm Makes the decision harder, although 2 elements is still better then one, and it sounds pretty hard to get multiple elements otherwise. I guess I could use summon guardian to apply water for instance (or earth possible, from bull), and then the dual twin swords to apply fire/lightning. Oh the bombs might apply fire as well, but that wouldn't add another effect.

Think there are direct spells that apply different effects as well, tons of ways to apply fire at least (ninja stars, bombs etc). Water/earth seems much harder to apply. I really liked waters affect in that last fight, but reducing kai and kai regen would be nice as wel. Wish there was a way to apply all of them hehe!!

[Tiasmoon]

All elemental debuffs can be active at the same time.

[wulfster42]

引用自 Deathwing Zero：

You can upgrade your dual swords at the blacksmith by soul matching them with other dual swords. It doesn't have to be the same exact swords, but if it is the same ones it will be cheaper. Be careful soul matching though, the more you soul match an item, the more expensive it gets, and it gets expensive extremely quickly.

Ahh ok, i think i had multiples of the same sword in the past but I got rid of them, i should have saved them I guess. I will be more careful in the future. Love this game, but man is there tons of things to learn etc!! Guess you don't actually need to right away, which is kinda cool, means you keep getting better and learning more as you play.

[Tiasmoon]

引用自 wulfster42：

Oh shucks, so if I put another element on them, it takes the other two off:(

Hmm Makes the decision harder, although 2 elements is still better then one, and it sounds pretty hard to get multiple elements otherwise. I guess I could use summon guardian to apply water for instance (or earth possible, from bull), and then the dual twin swords to apply fire/lightning. Oh the bombs might apply fire as well, but that wouldn't add another effect.

Think there are direct spells that apply different effects as well, tons of ways to apply fire at least (ninja stars, bombs etc). Water/earth seems much harder to apply. I really liked waters affect in that last fight, but reducing kai and kai regen would be nice as wel. Wish there was a way to apply all of them hehe!!

Your Guardian Spirit does deal elemental damage. Both with the scroll that summons it, and when you are using Living Weapon. Also, you can use talismans to apply elements to your attacks. These are from Onmyo, but also can be found as usable items.

There's also a few items like the fire mask or the tengu item that apply a large amount of elemental damage when used.

[puzzlefox]

Talisman overwrites the elemental effect on your weapons. So if you have lightning dmg on your weapon, the lightning dmg does not stack. If you have the dual element dual swords, elemental talisman will overwrite both the innate fire+lightning. It’s really stupid, I know. Especially since elemental damage is stupidly weak.

The best bang for your buck for those is to get as much fire and lightning augmentation as you can. Augmentation refers to how quickly they apply the elemental status effects. You can get these bonuses on accessories, by reforging the weapon, or via set bonuses. If both effects are applied, the enemy gets confused (it’s 2 status ailments right?.. maybe 3 I dunno..) and confused enemy = screwed for ki

I’ve for awhile been meaning to try a mid-heavens light build with stacked fire+elemental augmentation..

[puzzlefox]

I really wish they’d have made elemental stats more useful. I’d love to make a good elemental build with elemental weapons. I always thought it was possible since the NPC waifu invthe first zone, the one with the lightning sword, her attacks did more elemental damage than they did physical dmg.

It might be possible if you had an elemental star stat, a plus [element] dmg (weapon), a GS with a bonus for that element, a set bonus with an element dmg bonus, and an accessory with that element bonus.
But that’s a lot of effort for something that will still ultimately be lackluster.

[Deostades]

Even at +200% Elemental, you'll never do a terrible amount of elemental damage, though you will inflict element and confusion at a very reliable rate.

Ninetails may well be the best elemental inflictor in the game, but many other GS will gladly vie with her for that top spot, and Gale Shot will rarely fail to Bluster a non-resitant enemy (as you should well know with our escapades with Shigepede ^_^)

Mid-Heaven's light swords are actually terrible. Dual Swords may well be the single worst weapons at inflicting element, as each slice will deal maybe half the elemental buildup of most other weapons, and the attack rate doesn't make up for it. The Mid-Heaven's light bonus on the swords further cuts the elemental buildup in half between both fire and lightning.

I used these swords for a good while on WotSam and early Strong, and never once inflicted both elements and Confused an enemy without resorting to GS talismans or other onmyo trickery. Like adding Break to a non-Ki break speciality build, it's a trap.

[puzzlefox]

To my knowledge, onmyo magic power only affects the duration of the elemental talisman, not the dmg effect or the augmentation, right?