stacking up stats from items/titles?

[76561198085041240]

i saw vena doll (Move 2 tiles per WIL; Never Deflected; 30% Divert ARM; 30% Dodge STR) item at a shop and decided to give it a try. i put it on Rook who has 3 ranks in both dodge and divert, expecting to see his stats buff up to 45% (rank 3 gives 15% + 30% from vena doll), but that's not the case: they stay at 15%. then i decided to reload an earlier save and choose "whisper" title (Much less aggro, +2 MOV, +30% Dodge) and again i don't see any stacking up of dodge, it stays at rank's 3 15%. so my question is are they stacking or not? if yes then why it doesn't show up? if no then what's the point? let's say gold bridle does stack up and you see at character's screen where all your talents budd up 3 ranks up.

[Troll]

I'm pretty certain the % stack up.
What you see is that the talent rank doesn't change because the item isn't a +x to talent but a plus x to stat.

What we lack is a "status" page for heroes to see all effects from items and talents.

[76561198085041240]

maybe it is, but so far i'm unimpressed. i decided to do a check battle loading previous save and taking whisper talent and bought vena doll. so Rook's stats should be:
dodge rank 3 - 15% + whisper 30% + vena doll 30% = 75%
divert rank 3 - 15% + vena doll 30% = 45%
it does seems to lower aggro as i've been hit 2 times throught 3 waves of battle, but both times i've been hit it did landed, first time strenght attack, second time arm attack. arm attack is ok, but witch 75% dodge strength attack should be dodged.

ok i checked again with only Rook solo, so i could gather as many hits as possible. it does work, but it's rather random: i got hit first 3 times and then dodged around 6 next hits before being hit again.

[KBar]

I haven't looked into this in a while, but my memory is that some stats from items/titles stack, and some don't, and there is not clear documentation. I suppose this is part of the learning process of the game?

[76561198085041240]

stoic - or any dev - should be respectful for their players time. we are not all teens with plenty of time to spare to figure obscure things out or to replay same things again because saga doesn't save during talks, so i'd say make your game clear and allow player's progress to be saved at any given time. i agree that

Originally posted by Troll:

...What we lack is a "status" page for heroes to see all effects from items and talents.

[KBar]

Originally posted by utuzut:

stoic - or any dev - should be respectful for their players time. we are not all teens with plenty of time to spare to figure obscure things out or to replay same things again because saga doesn't save during talks, so i'd say make your game clear and allow player's progress to be saved at any given time. i agree that

Originally posted by Troll:

...What we lack is a "status" page for heroes to see all effects from items and talents.

I'm not a teen. I have two kids, two jobs, and a wife who works full-time. I've dumped a ton of time into these games.

Changing the save feature would fundamentally change the format of the game. Not allowing saves at any given time is not a dig at gamers or a way to force players to invest ridiculous amounts of time into the games. It is - in my understanding - a very intentional part of the game design. It forces you to make choices and stick with those choices, or backtrack and do over. The point is to not allow players to just spam reloads until they get the "right" outcome because there is no "right" outcome, but rather to help you get engrosses in the story and player progression. If you lose a player you invested time in, well that might just be because the world is ending and people are gonna die. Cause you're - ya know - playing the role of people trying to survive an apocalyptic event in this here role-playing game.

[FatalFrosty]

The only way to increase talents % is to equip items that increase talents ranks.

If you have titles that grant the same abilities as talents, or items, they will act separately.

If you have an item or title which does critical hit + 30%, this does not increase the % rate of Artery Strike, it means you have 30% of having a critical, and your usual % chances of having Artery Strike.

If you have an item or title which gives a dodge %, and you have the dodge talent, it means you have 2 separate chances of dodging, calculated separately.

[76561198085041240]

Originally posted by KBar:

...Changing the save feature would fundamentally change the format of the game. Not allowing saves at any given time is not a dig at gamers or a way to force players to invest ridiculous amounts of time into the games. It is - in my understanding - a very intentional part of the game design. It forces you to make choices and stick with those choices, or backtrack and do over. The point is to not allow players to just spam reloads until they get the "right" outcome because there is no "right" outcome, but rather to help you get engrosses in the story and player progression. If you lose a player you invested time in, well that might just be because the world is ending and people are gonna die. Cause you're - ya know - playing the role of people trying to survive an apocalyptic event in this here role-playing game.

generally i agree, but then again imho you still should allow players to actually save at any given time so they can quit a game and then resume just where they left it, no skipping dozen of minutes worth in dialogues and then do same battle again they won yesterday just because there were some dialoges after said battle and the game didn't save your progress. there are decent chunks of the game where you can't save, while during caravan movement you can save every second minute.

Originally posted by FatalFrosty:

The only way to increase talents % is to equip items that increase talents ranks.

If you have titles that grant the same abilities as talents, or items, they will act separately.

If you have an item or title which does critical hit + 30%, this does not increase the % rate of Artery Strike, it means you have 30% of having a critical, and your usual % chances of having Artery Strike.

If you have an item or title which gives a dodge %, and you have the dodge talent, it means you have 2 separate chances of dodging, calculated separately.

how did you come about this? not saying it's not true just not sure how can you have 2 separate chances of dodging for the same blow? if i have a dodge item, a dodge talent, and a dodge title that's 3 separate dodge chances and if they don't stack up that means they don't.

[FatalFrosty]

You can see the % rise and go beyond rank 3 in talents when you equip items that increase talents ranks. You can see that this % does not change when you have titles or items that grant dodges or critical hits. They're kept separate and calculated on their own in order to keep it impossible to have double damage or dodge rates too close to 100%.

[76561198085041240]

Originally posted by FatalFrosty:

You can see the % rise and go beyond rank 3 in talents when you equip items that increase talents ranks. You can see that this % does not change when you have titles or items that grant dodges or critical hits.

yep that's what i mention as well in the first post.

but still i don't get how did you come to that conclusion?

Originally posted by FatalFrosty:

They're kept separate and calculated on their own in order to keep it impossible to have double damage or dodge rates too close to 100%.

i ain't matematician and to me dodge/crits percentage calculated seprately is a waste because it's like 2 cars driving at 50 mph will not outrun 1 car driving at 100 mph. or it's like taking out enemies one by one instead of fighting them all at once. in other words, there is no point stacking dodging/crit items/titles/talents, as it's better to have a little of each instead of putting everything in one basket.

[Kingsley]

Originally posted by FatalFrosty:

They're kept separate and calculated on their own in order to keep it impossible to have double damage or dodge rates too close to 100%.

Assuming that crit does work like this, where a crits success is checked against item crit chance, talent crit chance and title crit chance all independently, then you can still calc max crit chance.

AFAIK, the best set up for max crit chance is warriors beret and the forsaken. 50% flat item crit, 30% total crit from talent (3 points plus 2 points from item), and 30% crit from title.

Easiest way to calc total crit chance is calc the chance of no crit. Which would be:
.5x.7x.7=0.245
The remaining 75.55% should result in a crit.
Therefore stacking crit would increase your chances of a crit, just not additively. Whether it’s worth it or not, just depends how much you want to achieve the desired result. The game is really not hard enough to worry too much about it.
This requires more testing to confirm, I’ll try and have a crack in my next play through.

[FatalFrosty]

Having 2 chances of 30% each opposed to one of 40-60% does make a difference. There's challenges in the Arena where you absolutly need critical hits in order to slay all enemies in the least number of turns possible. This is where it matters.