Any immersive sim I might have missed?

[Space Cowboy]

I'm kinda in the mood for more of this. However I already played most other immersive sims I know of - the Deus Ex franchise, System Shock 2 obviously, Prey, Dishonored, Weird West (probably part of the genre?) and even Strife (for MS-Dos). Bioshock also but I didn't like the franchise very much apart from Bioshock 2 - I kinda always viewed them as System Shock light.
So, any ideas what else there is? Maybe some indie endeavors? Or something else I might have missed?

[Sparky mark phillips]

You should check out some doom mods lot of interesting mods out there and also coming up, Hedon is really good it's kind of Hexen but with more rpg mechanics then theres also Core Decay which calls itself an immerssive sim.

[Masoterian]

Pathologic 2 is the best tip i can imagine, absolutely insane game. also, i wouldnt call Stalker series "immersive sims" but they're great games, especially with those modern mods like Anomaly or Gamma, best sandbox i've ever played, hands down.

[Cahalith]

Good suggestions all. But I feel the need to point something out to the people arguing that some of these games "aren't actually immersive sims" because they're not 1-to-1 like System Shock:

Let's remember that Warren Spector originally coined the term "immersive sim" to refer to ANY GAME that (1) uses complex interlocking game mechanics to create (2) a believable and immersive world, in turn (3) allowing for a high level of player expression. This was an attempt at distinguishing Ultima 6 and 7 and Ultima Underworld from the more "game-y" RPGs of the time, like the Wizardry series.
The term "immersive sim" was never meant to be a strict genre definition, but a term to describe an underlying design philosophy which could be applied to ANY type of game. Which is why we call both the Thief games and the System Shock games "immersive sims", in spite of their very obvious design differences. This just goes to show that, if you only apply the "immersive sim" tag to any game that's 1-to-1 EXACTLY like System Shock 2, you're applying an arbitrary level of creative limitation to a set of games that tries to achieve the exact opposite.


Anyways, here are some additional games that might be of interest to you folks (though some of them are kinda bottom of the barrel):

Deathloop - Had some negativity surrounding it, but still a good game I'd say
Filcher - Haven't played this one, but it seems to be a deliberate Thief homage
Ultima Underworld 1+2 - Basically just like the original System Shock, but in a fantasy scenario (available on GOG)
The later Ultima games in general, such as Ultima 7 (also available on GOG)
Underworld Ascendant - A 'spiritual descendant' of Ultima Underworld that was sadly left in a buggy and unfinished state, only worth a look at a significant discount
Mechajammer - seems to be a bit of a hit-and-miss game, but most people agree it has some imsim spirit

And here are some games to look out for in the future:
Fortune's Run
Judas
Core Decay
Neverlooted Dungeon
Retrospace
Peripeteia

[Nyu]

with the games that got mentioned here, i am confused no one said eurotruck simulator yet.

[bl_4u]

Originally posted by Full Loot PVP:

So Witcher 3 is an immersive sim then?

I think Butcher was the one who said that immersive sims were first person shooters.

I decided to delete my post after re-reading it because on reflection I'm starting to agree it's a bit limiting as a genre and makes more sense as a design philosophy.

[Kain]

Immersive Sim is a very broad term with no agreed upon definition, I think most suggestion here makes sense though, games focused on exploration and creativity when solving objetives. If the game is first person or not, is irrelevant.

[ReamedBySteem]

Originally posted by Kain:

Immersive Sim is a very broad term with no agreed upon definition, I think most suggestion here makes sense though, games focused on exploration and creativity when solving objetives. If the game is first person or not, is irrelevant.

Yeppity. I think Spector once described them as a game that threw a litany of problems at you all with multiple solutions, and perhaps sometimes solutions the devs didn't even envisage. I certainly found that to be true in the original Deus Ex.

[Flan]

Ok don't attack me but, Zelda Totk and Botw is almost certainly a immersive sim and a good one too.

[Cahalith]

Originally posted by Full Loot PVP:

Exactly there is no point in asking for more immersive sims then because almost every game is an immersive sim now.

HEY AC VALHALLA IS IMMERSIVE SIM HURR DURR AMAZING GAEM GOOD SUGGESTION

Not sure why Full Loot PVP quoted my original post for trolling purposes when I was actually arguing that imsims ARE distinct from other games - just not along such strictly definable genre lines as some people propose ("it HAS to be first-person", "it HAS to have an inventory system" and so on) but in terms of an underlying design philosophy.

But Full Loot PVP unwittingly came upon another interesting aspect of the whole discussion, which is that, with advances in technology, many current games are way beyond what would have been sufficient to call them "immersive sims" back in the day. Keep in mind that Ultima (Underworld) went up against games like Wizardry, which didn't even have monsters autonomously walking around the game world. Those games would simply have a pre-programmed probability to spawn certain enemies when the player moved to a specific tile. Likewise, you'd find these monsters in dungeon environments which simply weren't built with the necessities of living in mind (Where do these monsters get their food? Where do they sleep?)

In games like the aforementioned Witcher 3, you do get monsters roaming around and you do get dungeons that make some amount of sense for creatures living there. So what is it that makes The Witcher NOT an immersive sim? I'd say the reason for this lies more with the underlying mechanics of the game and how these influence the options players have to solve problems. To give one example, in Ultima Underworld, if you came upon a locked door, you could either go find the corresponding key, lockpick the door or break it down. In The Witcher 3, you can only open locked doors with the corresponding key (please correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while), and I believe there are even locked doors which don't even have corresponding keys because you're not "supposed" to get through them (unless you're working within strictly defined quests which allow you to open that door).

So while many modern games have learned from imsim design philosophy in some areas, there are still areas where they limit player expression when a real imsim would give you the gameplay mechanics you need to find creative solutions to problems - much like the Spector quote ReamedBySteam has brought up.

[solaris32]

Surprised no one's mentioned the two Consortium games. Remaster of the first is coming soon, and the sequel will eventually one day get done hopefully.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2380550/CONSORTIUM_Remastered/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/626250/Consortium_THE_TOWER/

[Spoke]

Originally posted by Full Loot PVP:

Originally posted by Butcher:

"Immersive sim" is a pretentious name for first person shooters with some side activities and level design allowing multiple entrances. For some reason that doesn't include The Elder Scrolls.

Well, I guess Deep Rock Galactic and Payday 2 count for immersive sims in singleplayer.

Exactly. Might as well include Fallout and TES and any other deep RPG series too where you get to live in the world and interact with it

People here are all over the place with game suggestions. Basically just suggesting good games but nothing that plays like System Shock remake except for maybe Prey and SS2 and Deus Ex although Deus Ex is not exactly System Shock either.

https://rosodudemods.wordpress.com/2020/12/14/immersive-sim-is-a-design-philosophy-not-a-genre/

Cool read, i recommend it.

[Space Cowboy]

Originally posted by solaris32:

Surprised no one's mentioned the two Consortium games. Remaster of the first is coming soon, and the sequel will eventually one day get done hopefully.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2380550/CONSORTIUM_Remastered/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/626250/Consortium_THE_TOWER/

Yo! I totally forgot about this one but I did play the original Consortium and was very impressed with it back then. This is a good one for the wishlist - thanks!

[Butcher]

Originally posted by Kain:

Immersive Sim is a very broad term with no agreed upon definition, I think most suggestion here makes sense though, games focused on exploration and creativity when solving objetives. If the game is first person or not, is irrelevant.

Then almost all roguelikes and some roguelites qualify? Yet noone mentions Nethack, ADoM, Elona, Cataclysm DDA, Wazhack or Noita when talking about immersive sims.

Originally posted by Spoke:

Originally posted by Full Loot PVP:

Exactly. Might as well include Fallout and TES and any other deep RPG series too where you get to live in the world and interact with it

People here are all over the place with game suggestions. Basically just suggesting good games but nothing that plays like System Shock remake except for maybe Prey and SS2 and Deus Ex although Deus Ex is not exactly System Shock either.

https://rosodudemods.wordpress.com/2020/12/14/immersive-sim-is-a-design-philosophy-not-a-genre/

Cool read, i recommend it.

Key point from your read:

Originally posted by teh read:

The qualities that I believe characterize the Immersive Sim design philosophy are as follows:
1)Real-time gameplay from the (usually first-person) perspective of a single player character
2)Influence from role-playing games, particularly in promoting player agency
3)Systems-driven gameplay with a focus on simulation

First point is somewhat understandable, you play as a 1 dude, fine.

Second point is rather unclear, in particular to sandboxes like Crusader Kings or Mount&Blade where you do control one character and have rather big player agency.

Third point is outright laughable, a lot of well known "immersive sims" don't actually have any sort of simulation of the living world. On the other side, there is The Elder Scrolls with NPCs having their daily routines, going to sleep home at night. Yet The Elder Scrolls is not immersive sim somehow! There is Mount&Blade with world living around you, lords betraying their kingdoms, grabbing new lands and fighting eachother, never mentioned to be immersive sim. And finally Crusader Kings, which simulates a lot of things around the world at once, rather complex simulation which is... Not an immersive sim again?

I rate this read 7.8, too much water. And rather little substance of questionable quality.

[ZylonBane]

Originally posted by Kain:

If the game is first person or not, is irrelevant.

It is absolutely relevant, because of the "immersive" part. The more immediately the player identifies with their player character, the more immersive a game can become.

Moving an ASCII character around from a god's-eye perspective would be the least immersive way to play.

[GTCv Deimos]

I'm a bit surprised nobody tapped this one:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/312230/Spirits_of_Xanadu/

Also from NightDive Studio. I would definitely call this System Shock lite (and maybe not exactly "immersive" in the ways that SS is). It's a game that does exactly zero handholding, and offers a spooky, convincing environment that asks you to puzzle everything out for itself. It doesn't quite have the scope of SS, but I think it's worth playing all the same.