Gas Grenades & Dragon Breath Rounds Need Some Tweaks for Combat Level 3

[Brian (The Schmaltzy Cynic)]

I'm about four hours into a Combat Level 3 / Mission Level 3 playthrough, and, overall, I am much more satisfied with SS1R with this added challenge. However, I do think this setting showcases how anemic your weapons can feel at times; more importantly, it really shows how awful Dragon Breath rounds and gas grenades feel in this game.

If you're playing on Combat Level 2 or below, I doubt you would notice these issues as most enemies go down with an appropriate number of rounds. You'll notice certain ammo types being more effective than others, but even if you use the wrong ammo type, it still won't hinder your enjoyment of the gameplay. That seems to be the base-line for how the game was balanced.

This all changes on Combat Level 3 where enemies respond much faster and they seem to behave more aggressively, especially when it comes to those plagued mutants. Even when I'm using the Teflon rounds against robotic enemies, my guns feel weaker. (I swear, those drones take a solid 6 - 8 rounds EACH.) Perhaps there is a stronger emphasis on location-based damage that I'm not aware of because I do notice my guns doing extra damage to cyborgs if I aim at their heads, so critical hits appear to be a thing in this game. If that is the case, then adding some extra audio feedback for the robotic enemies would be appreciated.

However, this issue pales in comparison to any equipment that deals damage-over-time. SS1 is a very claustrophobic game, so there isn't a whole lot of room to dodge enemies as you wait for the DoT effect to finish them off. On Combat Level 2, it was barely noticeable, but it could save you some ammo if you used them on the correct enemy. This all changes with the more aggressive enemy behaviors on Combat Level 3, which is what I quickly realized when I encountered the four plagued mutants on the Research level.

I died in that room way more than the entirety of my first playthrough, and it felt wrong because I was using the correct tools. The Dragon Breath rounds simply didn't kill them any faster than using regular shotgun rounds because they quickly swarmed me. Tossing multiple gas grenades didn't appear to do anything significant, and the only reason I kept them is that they are effective against a group of virus enemies. (Even proximity mines were a little buggy here because they went off before they were let out of the tubes, so I couldn't toss them preemptively.)

It would be one thing if these tools did something unique against mutant enemies much like how the EMP grenades stun-lock robotic enemies or if they added some depth to the gameplay such as setting up traps with proximity mines. Something like making them flee on fire, attack one another in confusion, or stagger them from attacking you for a second to give you a chance to evade their attacks. Any one of these changes would be appreciated as it would give me a reason to use them more often against organic enemies.

[Deimos]

There is location based damage. I think it’s always relevant…. But your target finder cyberware in later versions will highlight the weak spot on enemies. Alt to highlight an enemy. I seem to recall by the flight deck this worked for me. Honestly the target finder will give you a good idea on RTKs for guns

Other thing is, dragons breath do part of their damage as DOT. They do kill squishies in fewer rounds than flechettes, but not necessarily faster.

Having played on difficulty 3 I can’t say noticed a huge difference. The fight you mentioned I pretty much laid down a mine. Popped a berserk and cut the mutants down with the laser rapier.

[Morgian]

The opposition gets more hitpoints on each difficulty level when I look at the shots needed for the same type of enemy. However, headshots are more effective, as Deimos mentions. The weak spot is the yellowish circle on the enemy after using your cyberware.

Gas and shotguns are weaker in this game as in others. I dumped the shotgun soon after using up my ammo first. The only good grenades are frags (only my opinion), since they solve all problems efficiently, be they organic or mechanical.

The laser rapier is great. Very high damage - extreme with berserk patch - but you have to close with the enemy first. This is one of the moments where an EMP grenade can be useful, stunning the robot till you are on him.
I was unable to beat the cortex reavers without it. They simply regenerated faster than I could shoot them. Or there is a trick to them I didn't find out about.

Just in case: when you rightclick weapons in your inventory, you can switch the fire mode on some, which may help. Others can be powered up with T - I did not notice for a while that you can do that with the magpulse, even if I was doing it with the sparq all the time.

[Depili]

emp grenades are nice for bosses in addition to the rapier and berserk, as they stun the boss.

emp grenades can also be used to bypass one or two puzzles by disabling grav lifts...

[LegendaryThunder]

The flechette should have been an SMG like it was in the original.

The shotgun should have replaced the Riot gun.

[Brian (The Schmaltzy Cynic)]

Originally posted by Deimos:

There is location based damage. I think it’s always relevant…. But your target finder cyberware in later versions will highlight the weak spot on enemies. Alt to highlight an enemy. I seem to recall by the flight deck this worked for me. Honestly the target finder will give you a good idea on RTKs for guns

Other thing is, dragons breath do part of their damage as DOT. They do kill squishies in fewer rounds than flechettes, but not necessarily faster.

Having played on difficulty 3 I can’t say noticed a huge difference. The fight you mentioned I pretty much laid down a mine. Popped a berserk and cut the mutants down with the laser rapier.

I honestly forget some of these cyberware stuff exists, so thanks for mentioning that.

[aaa a a aa AAA]

Most of the damage Gas Grenades do is also from DoT cloud they leave behind, so you have to account for that as well.

[recursor]

There is some use you can get out of the Dragon's Breath rounds on Combat 3. If you buy the box on Research before Maintenance, you can tag the alpha strain mutant outside the elevator with 2 shots and let the DoT kill it. Then there's another box of ammo through a southern door and down a ladder.

Then you can wander up to the NE and grab Sensaround V2 and turn it on to show the other invisible enemies. Tag them with 2 shots before they can attack and take cover for a moment and you'll clear everything out without risking any damage.

Now, you don't really need to do that at all, but I guess it is one use.

[Showtime, Synergy!]

i found dragon's breath OK if not exceptional in combat 3, it's a secondary ammo i only use in groves and against the mutated cyborgs in endgame (takes about 5 shots, saves me wasting more general-use ammo). perhaps the dot should do a little more damage than it does.

gas grenades, though, are pretty damn underpowered. i have stopped carrying them.

[Matuse]

Location based damage is so specific that hitting a cyborg on a metallic part of their body with teflon and other anti-robot ammunitions will do more damage than if you hit them in a fleshy bit, and vice versa with the ammo types that specialize in organics.

[recursor]

Well, gas grenades, they can... they... huh. They can set off proximity mines? Yeah, by the midgame they seem to be pretty darn useless aside from that. Though to be fair, I guess that can turntables on a cyborg assassin or two later in the game.

[Crypto Gamer]

Imo gas grenades need bigger radius and slightly longer dot cloud as they are weaker than in OG in everything.

Dragon rounds currently deal 30+120 dmg could be changed to 75+75 dmg or the 120 damage over time could tick about twice as fast.

Both of them are specialised anti organic weapons mostly useless againts others so they could get a slight buff.

[Stargoat]

Originally posted by Depili:

emp grenades are nice for bosses in addition to the rapier and berserk, as they stun the boss.

emp grenades can also be used to bypass one or two puzzles by disabling grav lifts...

NO WAY

Sounds like... viable skorp on 3/3/3/3

[-{SALT}-]

Admittedly, gas grenades are completely useless once the Beta Grove is jettisoned with the exception of a handful of encounters. With how stingy I am, I like wasting them on cyborg mutants so I can save grenades for more grave threats, but at that point there's so much ammo to go around I'm rarely in danger of actually running out. The shotgun does make for a nice early game gun, but does get outclassed rather quickly once bigger bots become more prominent.