Is there ANY reason to not get Hacking and Repair?

[meow]

Honestly they seem like an absolute no-brainer. You can take a lot of shortcuts with hacking, get to a lot of things earler, and just have a generally better quality of life. Having repair is the only way to permanently secure some areas and there are a few items that are locked behind having the ability to use repair.

Other than a challenge run, why wouldn't you get these mods?

[MeatShake]

I'd say because you wanna skill mods elsewhere but there's so many mods available it's almost a non-argument.

Early game not taking them makes sense but by midgame you should have at least two points in each. The game doesn't communicate the value of repair too well in the neuromods menu (repairing level 3 stuff is never explained just that you can reinforce turrets I believe.).

I guess I could argue: those areas are optional and equivalent to a secret room so you don't NEED to level them. I have gotten a quest item from level 3 repair, that satellite part, so I dunno if that's even a valid argument.

The joys of designing an open world game?

[Ogami]

Well apart from 2 achievements, the one that requires one pure human/typhon run and the one without any mods at all there is really no reason to not choose Hacking/Repair. They just have too many advantages.

[grandma_moses]

Hacking truly is a no-brainer. I prefer Leverage over Repair.

Instead of Repair you could opt for Leverage which I think is even better at opening up new ways and getting you more ressources. I agree with you that taking both of those talents at some point of the early game makes the game much easier as you get more ammo / crafting materials from hacking while you can open up new paths and find even more hidden items with Leverage or save up on items by repairing turrets with Repair.

The goal with both talents is not to be crazy strong because of the talent choices, but to gather so many items by using the talents that you never run out of anything ever again; be it ammo, medkits or PSI power - which makes almost all encounters much easier.

On the opposite site, this means - purely logically speaking - that, if you can manage your ressources ( ammunition, life and PSI mostly ) without those talents, you can create an even better char by boosting his damage output or resilience instead of improving his item gain.

Which puts both, actually all three ( Hacking, Repair and Leverage ) talents firmly in the beginner's bracket . They make your life a lot easier, but when you start to not need them and succeed without them, your char will be an even better one overall as it can now pick 'throughput' or 'survival' talents instead of, let's call them, 'item-gain' talents.

[meow]

Security neuromods don't unlock lore, though. Hacking and Repair most certainly do.

[Panic Fire]

Originally posted by grandma_moses:

Hacking truly is a no-brainer. I prefer Leverage over Repair.

Instead of Repair you could opt for Leverage which I think is even better at opening up new ways and getting you more ressources. I agree with you that taking both of those talents at some point of the early game makes the game much easier as you get more ammo / crafting materials from hacking while you can open up new paths and find even more hidden items with Leverage or save up on items by repairing turrets with Repair.

The goal with both talents is not to be crazy strong because of the talent choices, but to gather so much items by using the talents that you never run out of anything ever again; be it ammo, medkits or PSI power - which makes almost all encounters much easier.

On the opposite site, this means - purely logically speaking - that, if you can manage your ressources ( ammunition, life and PSI mostly ) without those talents, you can create an even better char by boosting his damage output or resilience instead of improving his item gain.

Which puts both, actually all three ( Hacking, Repair and Leverage ) talents firmly in the beginner's bracket . They make your life a lot easier, but when you start to not need them and succeed without them, your char will be an even better one overall as it can now pick 'throughput' or 'survival' talents instead of, let's call them, 'item-gain' talents.

Leverage is simply not needed though. Recycler Grenades easily fix any situation where leverage would have worked.
repair will actually auto finish side quests for your character. As in general you will need to repair somthing however with repair you can just fix the broken piece instead.

[grandma_moses]

I get what you are saying, but I'm finding the real value in Leverage lying with the fact that you can throw objects, deal damage and not use ammunition or PSI for dealing said damage.

I think of it as a ranged wrench.

Which in turn accomplishes exactly what you want by picking those talents in the first place - you have more items at your disposal ( by not spending as many ), and with that comes a rather relaxed style of play as your high ressource count always allows for multiple different approaches to any situation.

[Panic Fire]

Originally posted by grandma_moses:

I get what you are saying, but I'm finding the real value in Leverage lying with the fact that you can throw objects, deal damage and not use ammunition or PSI for dealing said damage.

I think of it as a ranged wrench.

Which in turn accomplishes exactly what you want by picking those talents in the first place - you have more items ( by not spending as many ), and with that: a rather relaxed style of play as your high ressource count always allows for multiple different approaches to any situation.

Or if you go repair you can instead use turrets to deal dmg. Honestly I found leverage to be a pain to use.

[meow]

The extra throw distance you get with Leverage shouldn't be underestimated. It really helps with those horrifying suicide bomb typhons since they target literally anything that moves.

[grandma_moses]

Originally posted by Panic Fire:

Or if you go repair you can instead use turrets to deal dmg. Honestly I found leverage to be a pain to use.

Absolutely, I would not want to advice on Repair over Leverage or Leverage over Repair. It's just that I prefer the one while another player might prefer the other.

But both talents ( Repair and Leverage ) fulfil a similar role within the game in my opinion, so I took it as an answer to OPs question of 'Is there a reason to not pick Hacking and Repair?'.

To which the answer, or rather, my answer would be: You can opt to pick Leverage over Repair if you so choose, but there really is no good reason to not get hacking aside from min/maxing after you know the game and its item positions inside out.

I'm not disagreeing with you is what I'm trying to get across. :)

[Entropie]

You could get around the use of lvl 4 hacking since a lot of things with that requirement have alternative ways to get the codes.

Though personally I just took it in the late game anyways since I had the mods to spare.

[grandma_moses]

Originally posted by Entropie:

You could get around the use of lvl 4 hacking since a lot of things with that requirement have alternative ways to get the codes.

Feels like I'm playing the know-it-all no one likes right now, but doesn't literally every instance of hacking have an alternate method to bypass it after you know the item locations of the related codes and / or key cards?

On a side note, that's one of the reasons that made System Shock 2 so endearing - the route you'd take on your fourth playthrough wouldn't even closely resemble the route you took on your first or second playthrough. By knowing item positions and the inner workings of the different locks, connections and safes you could rather efficiently get everything you needed without investing any points in the related 'item-gain' skills.

[Entropie]

There are quite a bit of code panels that simply don't allow for numeric inputs (all x instead of numbers) I am pretty sure the only way around those is by hacking.

[meow]

Originally posted by Entropie:

There are quite a bit of code panels that simply don't allow for numeric inputs (all x instead of numbers) I am pretty sure the only way around those is by hacking.

Mostly the safes and lockboxes.

Many of the doors that you would otherwise need to hack to get into can be opened with remote interaction or the huntress crossbow.

[grandma_moses]

Originally posted by Entropie:

There are quite a bit of code panels that simply don't allow for numeric inputs (all x instead of numbers) I am pretty sure the only way around those is by hacking.

Do you remember any of those doors' locations from the top of your head?

And bzk above me is right, of course; there are more possibilities to open the locked stuff than just the codes and cards I mentioned - which is again, and I repeat myself, no recommendation for or against Hacking as a talent - as I tried to explain in detail during the posts above.

[Entropie]

Originally posted by grandma_moses:

Do you remember any of those doors' locations from the top of your head?

No, sorry can't really remember any specific ones since, by design, those usually just lead to additional loot and not story relevant content.

They are a good reason for getting hacking up to 3 at some point though since there are some instances where there is no other way to get the loot.
(As opposed to, for example, leveling leverage, since you can use recycle grenades to solve any problem with objects blocking the way)