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The person you see at the very end is given more depth in the second game, VLR.
Ace killed everyone in the submarine ending, it's been a while so I don't remember the motive but it was him, pretending to be dead when you went past him.
That didn't make me understand that part any better since to me if it happened in the past both timelines couldn't be happening at once, since either one of the other already happened, nor could they remember any of it since it doesn't make sense to me that they have memories of things that never happened. It's like if they went down a path where Akane is going to die no matter what as a kid she should have immediately ceased to exist when she died as a kid long before that point cause that means she was always dead in that timeline since he never saved her and thus never alive to do any of this, and thus no one should be able to remember her being there at all cause she would have been dead 9 years ago. It doesn't make sense to me that her character would just vanish and everyone can remember her if it meant she died since it should have made it so none of that stuff happened in the first place just by the logic of how the past works. If they're in a timeline where she ended up living then they should remember she lived cause it already happened, and is just the reality of the past in that timeline yet they remember her dying. If someone dies in the past in a timeline they shouldn't also be alive to do things unless they weren't dead. Imagine if real life worked like that and we just have a bunch of people wandering around who died and we remember seeing die because in completely different timelines that aren't the one you're in they had some potential to live so somehow are alive even though they died. None of that makes any sense to me.
I feel like there's a massive bootstrap paradox going on here that I can't properly wrap my head around since it should have basically created an endless cycle.
This is one of the game's plot holes.
Seven saying she died is another plot hole. There's an interview of a developer somewhere in the game wiki where he just says that he has no explanation about that. Obviously past Akane survived.
IIRC Ace has not been unmasked in that ending so he is allowed to hide his past by killing every witness.
Oh okay then. I'm glad it's just a plot hole and not me not understanding the plot well enough. Her surviving instead of being both dead and alive makes more sense to me, and then creating the conditions that lead her to survive through her memories of the future. I actually went looking around elsewhere and on the wiki it said Seven could have also potentially been lying and in on it.
Yeah, I ended up figuring it out after rewatching it. The first time I got that ending Ace hadn't been revealed for me yet so it didn't even dawn on me at the time that he could have been faking, then by the time I got to his reveal I forgot to many details about the other route. After looking at it again now after knowing about Ace's deal, it should have been obvious since Lotus's wristband was missing, and that's basically his end game every route, to get her wristband so he can get out alone.
Hypothetically, you could imagine that the universe implodes and resets every time Junpei gets past the point where he could have saved Akane but didn't. Because that universe couldn't exist. But because of psychic memory transfer, he remembers his failures kind of sort of.
Hypothetically, this universe may have originally been created by a devastated Junpei in a universe in which Akane died as a child finding out what happened to her and then finding out the solution, creating a universe in which Akane now needs Junpei to find out the solution and pass it back to her in order to close the time loop, but if she doesn't motivate him herself, he won't do it because she didn't die.
::Shrug::
It's not an answer. It's just a way it all could have happened.
Other than that, Ace is responsible for dead people in almost all of the endings. Other times, it's Clover. Sub ending is Ace.
And Alice is supposedly a coincidence. I wish they'd done something more interesting with her, but that's what they went with.
That's my headcanon. It would explain Seven's "satisfied" look in the true ending when the question of him lying was raised; and why Snake was willing to take what seemed like a huge risk in the library (he told Junpei about the events of nine years past, even though this would supposedly get Clover killed) - that was never a genuine threat from Zero, rather a part of their joint plan.
Note also that Snake rues his sister dying "because of" him in the Zero Lost ending. While this could just be a feeling that he failed to protect her, I wonder if it's because he agreed for her to be involved. Plus, he didn't even try to warn Kubota about the rules at the start - because he'd just threatened his sister, or because he was meant to die like that?
One more thing about Seven: IIRC, in ZTD, he was working for Crash Keys with Aoi and Akane; it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that he was already in league with them the previous year.
All in all, Akane survived the experiments in every 999 timeline - by using the information sent to her from Junpei in the true timeline (remember that this information isn't limited only to said timeline). This leaves the question of Akane apparently "fading away" in the Zero Lost ending. I believe that she didn't actually fade away: all that was said was that Junpei "could've sworn she was fading away," or something to that effect; that could easily have just been Junpei's worst fears and heightened tensions playing tricks on him.
Presumably, Santa only opened and closed the chapel door to make Junpei leave the room to investigate - leaving Akane free to sneak out, creating the illusion of her disappearing. If she really had disappeared, why prevent Junpei from seeing it happen?
The grandfather paradox, in summary, posits that if a person was able to travel back in time and murder their grandfather before they had any children, then the person going back in time couldn't have been born and thus is unable to kill their grandfather, which in turn causes them to be born and do kill their grandfather, et cetera. This is usually used as an example why time travel would be impossible, or at the very least impossible back in time.
In this case, on the other hand, we've got a kid in the past who is connected to someone in the future (if we hand-wave away how that connection through time actually happens, because that's a completely different nut to begin with). We know (after playing through the true ending) that Junpei at one point in time literally causes kid Akane to either survive or die. This means that up until the time Junpei causes kid Akane to survive or die, kid Akane cannot survive but she cannot die either. Hence why Seven and Santa both insist she's dead, yet she's clearly not (until the appointed time).
To me it's a weird Shroedinger's Cat-esque thing but not quite Shroedinger's Cat. That's why it feels more like an inverted paradox. Just like someone can't go back in time to kill their grandfather, someone whose survival is determined in the future cannot be killed in the past.
Disclaimer: this is, again, my interpretation. I don't present this as fact. :)
If my character was an old man all along how come so many different characters gave Tenmyouji a hard time for being old, and nearly constantly brought it up even with the AI itself calling him Tenmyoldy, while no one ever even acknowledged my characters age? i mean I understand that it would ruin the twist at the end if they were too upfront about it, but it also makes the other characters actions seem very confusing in hindsight.
No one treated my character going to college as odd, younger characters actively flirted with him like he was around their age, never treating him like an old man. They treated him like a peer. He managed to pin Dio quite easily despite the fact he should be super weak from living on the moon base so long.
I feel a sense of suspension of disbelief fading because of how strange it was to me that no one in any manner acknowledged Sigma's age, where i could go back and hindsight and think, "oh that's why they said that to me."
Is their something I missed that would have foreshadowed others acknowledging his age in some way?
There are quite a few such occasions, actually:
1. Phi sarcastically calls Sigma "Grandpa" in the AB room at the start.
2. In Luna's route, Phi says that Sigma "must've done a lot of drugs to look like that at 22."
3. In Quark's ending, Dio calls Sigma a "senile old f*ck."
4. If you choose the cyan door, then a few of the participants will discuss their occupations in the infirmary after the first AB game; when Sigma says that he's "shooting for a PhD," Alice suggests that he "must've been working on that for some time."
Now these next few aren't so much to do with Sigma's age, but who he is:
5. Tenmyouji claims in his ending that he knows "exactly who Zero is" - presumably after seeing the hologram when he and Quark returned to the director's office to collect the photo; him knowing that Sigma is Zero would explain why he chose to betray him, even though he didn't need to at that point: out of bitterness rather than practicality.
6. In Luna's route, Sigma sarcastically says to G-OLM, "If you're a barrel-maker, then I'm an astronaut" - to which G-OLM replies, "Right you are, Sigma. Right you are." While it doesn't seem like it at the time, he's completely serious about this.
7. Luna, in her ending, calls Sigma "Doctor".
As for him being weak: he's the only participant who the others manage to prevent from escaping through the number 9 door after opening it in any timeline.
And Lagomorph wouldn't want to draw attention to Sigma that he's old, as it was necessary that he didn't realise his true identity until the very end; he was created by Sigma with this in mind.
Finally, Clover only flirted with Sigma out of necessity - to get him to choose betray - not because she was at all interested in him.
It's just that most of the indications seem like throwaway lines at the time, so they don't tend to stick in your mind to gradually build up an overall picture until after you know; I didn't pick up on most of these until my second time through.
I'd also add that from what I've seen of Japanese games, anime, and manga, it's not unusual for old men to openly perv on young women. As Phi warms up to you, she's basically tolerating/teasing/playing with Sigma by offering to wear a bathing suit for him. It's socially acceptable for her to do this, whereas in other countries, we'd expect her to tell him off. Similarly, it's acceptable for Clover to use her charms on him.
I think that's never explicitly said but it's the only thing that makes sense. Except for one bad ending it's always Ace that is the murderer (well, he is a murderer anyway but in that one end it's meaningless) because it's only Lotus bracelet that is missing.
Sevens memories are indeed weird but isn't Junpei even thinking about that at the end? It was needed to be told for the dramatic effect at the time but doesn't really make sense for story cohesion. Snake wasn't disagreeing with the memory. In a different path Santa is talking about how his sister was killed 9 years ago as well. That part can't really be explained properly.
Basically this. If Junpei doesn't reach the incinerator Akane ceases to exists because she dies in the incinerator nine years ago and is found by Seven, Santa, and Snake. I was kind of hoping there was a better reveal like she escaped into a different direction but when she opened the door in front of them that hope went right out of the window. That's the only reason this second game is happening as Akane ceases to exists if she isn't saved by Junpei in the incinerator. The safe ending is a bit weird in that regard. First I thought she disappeared because they couldn't reach the incinerator correctly but Zero uses the knockout gas again. So Akane must have been alive at that point.
As for the point about the characters telling Junpei that Akane died, by the end I got the impression that they were all in on the game in it, so Seven, Snake, Santa, and June at the very least were pretty much lying throughout to guide Junpei to the Incinerator. Whether Lotus and Clover were also in on it is hard to say, though Clover's axe ending doesn't make sense if she was.
The one gripe I have is that if it was all fake to make sure Akane gets the answer to the puzzle, why bring Ace into it at all? They say at the end that the watches didn't have detonators -- though presumably that was simply transmitting a code -- yet clearly at least two people in the game did have bombs inside of them that went off under the rules. You drugged the number 9 guy to put a bomb inside him, but you didn't check his pockets so he couldn't bring a knife into the environment, or care to remove it off his body knowing full well there was a guy there that you were almost challenging to murder everybody? Even the idea that they "knew" Ace would send the number 9 guy to his death in the first room to test it out is somewhat contrived. That whole side of it, while allowing the full story to come about, seems like a whole mess of unnecessary hassle if your end goal is to get Junpei to solve the Incinerator puzzle.
oh that part doesn't really confuse me due to understanding why Akane did this is the first place. She is simply recreating what she already saw in her vision of the future from childhood. If she didn't recreate what happened perfectly, there's a chance that what changed could make it so her plan doesn't work. It's not like she's making this stuff up herself. She is very specifically trying to recreate something she already saw. Ace is involved because she saw Ace was involved in the past when she was experiencing what Junpai saw in the future when she was a kid, and if what she saw from the past involved Nine having a knife, then he should have that knife for when she recreates it, since what he did could have a cause and effect relation to the timelines in ways that no one can calculate for. Like who knows how much him not having the knife might do to the timelines. He might have lived and then been a whole unplanned variable that never existed in the timeline she saw. Things might have gone completely different, and then who knows if we'd ever get the timeline that saves Akane.
There's also a good chance she felt angry at the men who did this too her, and saw them all dying as well deserved, since we know Ace gets his comeuppance in the timeline she was trying to create to be the "official timeline"