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I was addressing to other players - asking, which controllers (Vive or Touch) they prefer and if they also agree with me, that Touch controllers seem significantly less precise (that's why I think the devs implemented stronger aim-assist for those controllers in Paintball, otherwise the game would be too frustrating/unplayable).
I also wanted to let people know, that despite of the differences in controllers' accuracy and differences in aim-assist strength, the game is wonderful on Touch and on Vive, although a bit different.
As an "experienced" player I am not bothered too much at about spawn invulnerability, neither spawnkilling. To be honest, I haven't been bothered about it even when I was new to this game, because I enjoy competition, I like hard/difficult games. I don't mind loosing or dying often - that just motivates me even more. But I understand, that all of this may be an issue for SOME other players (especially the beginners, that do not know or do not have enough skill (YET!) to avoid spawnkilling). And believe me, I do care about other players, especially about people that just learn to play this game. I want them to enjoy this game as much as I do. That's why I always try to be nice to other players, and if I can talk, I often (and with pleasure) give some tips to less-experienced players, because I think that the more people play this game, the more good players, the better it gets.
However, one thing I mainly care about is a FAIR COMPETITION. I like RecRoom Paintball mainly because that's one of just a few online multiplayer games in my entire life (and I am 40 years old gamer, that started on C64 ~30 years ago), that offered (at least before Touch vs Vive multiplayer will become reality) and extremely fair competitive multiplayer experience. I have been always thinking this game in the following way:
* all players use exactly the same controllers
* all players use the same display, with the same screen refresh rate and (almost) the same graphics resolution (almost, because some lucky players may turn on supersampling)
Could it get any better than this?
Hmyeah, this thing is probably more important than the spawn thing. Lately it hasn't been an issue really. It's mostly an issue in unbalanced games. Most of the time when people spawnkill, they're already winning by a landslide. At that point, there's no need for it. Especially when there's no leaderboard to track the points anyway. Is it fair game? Yeah. Is it annoying and takes the fun out of it somewhat? Yes. With that said, it IS worth noting that when you spawn, you've got those orange cubes in your face from the spawn animation. And the gun likes to spawn in the wrong hand every now and then, on top of that the direction of my play space seems to be somewhat random every time I spawn which also annoys me.
As for how fair this game is. To make it truly fair, they need more servers. Lag is ever present in paintball and leads to a lot of tied battles, where the other player gets in a shot up to a second after yours. Shots that sail past you count as hits. Hits on your shield count as hits and so on. Because there's a slight disconnect between what's happening on your screen vs theirs. This applies to ALL players in my experience. It also helps me to get points, but I'd honestly want the game to be more responsive for all players in general. This also applies to other modes in many ways. In ball tag, catching the ball is a crapshoot at best, most of the time it'll count as a hit. In paddle ball, all you need to do is hit the ball as hard as possible and you'll score against the opponent 90% of the time because the ball will be in their net before they even see the shot and so on. Then we have players that lag by up to 2-3 seconds, but they're most likely playing on a bad connection and there's not much that can be done about that. I think it's got a fair bunch of variables too that change from player to player. For example, room space and tracking quality. Vive is fairly easy to set up, but I did have to cover up my windows and especially my mirror to eliminate some jitter. Now it's very close to perfect for me. I do hope others do the same.
>Most of the time when people spawnkill, they're already winning by a landslide
Exactly. Let's be honest - players that spawnkill are the ones that are winning. There's a simple solution for people that want to avoid being spawnkilled - just play some more, become better, start winning and dominating a game. Every good player in this game went the same way, and was spawnkilled at the beginning. Is that fair? IMO yes!
>Lag is ever present in paintball and leads to a lot of tied battles, where the other player gets in a shot up to a second after yours. This applies to ALL players in my experience.
Yes, lag is ever present, like in almost any other online-multiplayer game. Like you just said, and I cannot agree more, this applies to ALL players. ALL. Is that fair? IMO yes!
>I think it's got a fair bunch of variables too that change from player to player. For example, room space and tracking quality.
You're right. There are many variables. However, I am surprised how fair this game is, despite those variables and differences between players' Vive setups. Let's see... I prefer to play in standing position, but I've met a few really good players that were sitting or (probably) laying on a floor - they could not see as much as other players, but they were also not as much visible and more difficult to hit. Also, because I have problems with my back and with my spine, and also my play space is very small (approximately only 1 meter square), I just stand still. Two-three months ago I was usually loosing games, but... after some time my disadvantage become an advantage. Because I usually had to stand completely still, I become more and more accurate over time (my body, and especially my hand is barely moving), and the more accurate I was, the less shots/bullets I needed (one bullet per player became my goal, and I often achieve it), and I could do silent/sudden kills like not many other players. Some people (Hi Starmanta!: Hi DoctorMickey (sorry if I misspelled your nick, I respect you a lot! believe me) even called me "one-shot-man". But, I saw many excellent players that use room-scale, e.g. Think!, Eyedea, Lemimouth, Jong Yi (hi guys!). If I remember correctly, you're great as well, WiseDuck. I am happy with my tactics/strategy/playing-style and I think this game is extremely fair, considering how many different playing styles people represent and they are able to win games consistently.
IMO tracking problems are a completely different thing. Broken hardware (e.g. lightstations, motion controllers, headsets, cables), slow PCs (that don't met minimum requirements), poor Internet connection, etc. are under players control. Not the developers. If someone wants to play a game despite of hardware issues - that's his choice, and developers can't do much about this. If you know what I mean (sorry for my english). Btw, guys be carefour, because I broke touchpad on one of my Vive controllers by pressing it too often/too strong (?) in RecRoom, to teleport in Paintball :). I broke my two fingers as well (by holding the controller too stong and the sessions were too long). And my neck is also hurting me recently... VR is still an uncharted territory and we are guinea-pigs :) Having said that, see you in Paintball guys!
I meant... I hurted them. Sorry for my english again. I had an injection of steroids under USG month ago, and they are almost cured now. Thankfully, because I need them for Paintball :) Yes, I am an addict.
And sure, if everyone lags, no one lags. But I really want the game to be more responsive. Imagine if games like Counter Strike had this amount of lag at tournament level, it would be unacceptable! As it is now, in order to use room scale physical dodging of bullets effectively, you have to move before the opponent shoots at you, then you teleport before they have time to adjust to your movement. I just want physical movement to be more effective, the shield more effective and so on. I want to be able to respond to sudden changes in bullet trajectories. As it is now, spotting a bullet in mid-flight and shielding it rarely works, because it has actually already hit you and your movement means very little. Its worth striving for less lag overall, not just in paintball. It affects every game except disc golf. Paddle ball can be cheesed completely by hitting the ball as hard as you can, making the game almost pointless!
Basically, reducing the lag would actually make a wider variety of playstyles more usable, as the gameplay right now is more about prediction, rather than reaction.
And yes I can tell. :P I wouldn't be surprised if you have 400+ hours in this game. I'm currently just at 70 and my goal is to be really damn good at paintball. I really want the leaderboards back, as I only had time to get to spot 130 before it was taken down. I did very very tonight against every level 20 player, but I find that I need to really be "into it", get into the rhythm so to speak, before I do really well. I'm easily demoralized though, so I can easily have some pretty bad days in the game.
Everyone plays together as one big happy VR family.
Actually, there is zero aim assist in paintball. We take the barrel position of the gun at the moment that you pull the trigger and launch a paintball in whatever direction it's facing. No auto-aim, no "sticky" reticule, no curving bullets (well except for gravity, but you know what I mean). If you hit someone from an impressive distance, that's 100% you and your ability to aim. That's part of why it's so satisfying to get a solid sniper shot from all the way across the map - you literally have to hold your breath, steady your arms, and focus on the shot.
I just wanted to let you know that we hear this feedback loud and clear. We put some effort into trying to address the spawnkilling issues in the most recent release, but we know that we have more work to do here.
Holy smokes! Take care of yourself. We love dedicated players, but literally sacrificing your body might be taking it a bit far... :)
Trango, you've made my day. I had two weeks break from Paintball, and when I returned to the game I also switched controllers from Vive to brand new Touch. It was a couple of days ago and all this time I've felt almost like a cheater. Why? My shots were just damn too accurate.
After two weeks of not playing, and now also using completely different controllers, I just expected a significant regress of my skill. That wasn't the case and I was more than surprised. I feel that I'm even more accurate now (and I have been #1 in wins and #1 in hits for ~month, before leaderboards dissapeared). I was also surprised because my Touch controllers judder and drift away quite often, while my Vive controllers were always where they should be. The only reasonable answer that came to my mind was aim assist. "There has to be some aim assist" I thought and it seemed logical.
But if the dev says "there's no aim assist", there is no aim assist and I won't feel bad using Touch controllers when I'm winning anymore. Good to hear that so many people calling me a cheater during last few days were wrong :))
And regarding sacrificing my body... don't worry. I'll be ok:) The first injury (fingers) came as a surprise. Who would expect something like that? But I considered that as a warning and I took the lesson seriously. I play less often and in shorter sessions. Health is of course more important than any game, even such amazing one like a paintball in RecRoom. :)
Regards!
But again, I'm no expert. If it works it works! The more room scale and 360 users, the better. Because it is the future. If VR becomes just stationary gameplay in the future, I'd most likely give up on it.
>"I mean, the game is very casual overall, most players jump between the various game types and dont focus exclusively on one like some paintballers do, so I think its important to not discourage them too much by stomping them completely."
WiseDuck, I completely agree. And sorry if I sometimes forget myself a little bit too much in this game. If you, or anyone else, see me spawnkilling or misbehaving, just let me know and I'll stop and I'll apologize, like I would also in real-life. Sometimes I like to fight alone against 3-4 players, and then I need to control/own the playground, try to push them to their base, otherwise they will do the same with me - and then I sometimes play too hard. But even then I try to apologize, chat with people, laugh and make a friendly atmosphere. That's only a game. Loosing sometimes is an integral part of the experience, right?
By the way, I am usually more impressed by people that loose with dignity (i.et. they fight to the end and don't quit, especially when they loose by a big margin) because that means something about their character). Of course, the people who win with me impress me too, but not as much - anyone can handle the controller and shoot precisely, it only takes some practice, right?
Oh, if you're up against a large team, definitely don't hold back. I have no complaints with you, you're doing the right thing in this game for sure. Gosh, it's weird how serious we are about this game, given it's casual appearance and style. You never know, it might just die soon, like many VR games before it. Multiplayer gamers are a fickle bunch in VR right now. Thankfully, Rec Room is free and highly polished and is updated often, so I hope people stick around.
By your gameplay as well as your behaviour and I could tell that you are a nice person. And this discussion proves I was right. The scores don't matter to me that much. The overall experience is more important.
And while I appreciate that some people always fight to the end, I am also surprised by that at the same time, because it's just a game. We play games mainly to have fun, not to became frustrated or angry. I completely understand people that quit game at any time, if they don't enjoy it. What's the purpose if playing? I simply enjoy loosing as much as winning, that's why I don't quit, but people are different and that's beautiful. I think the devs should allow players to choose if they want to play versus random (and possibly better players) or play against people of similiar skill.
Best regards! And don't quit playing this game, please. You and people simillar to you make this game so awesome and enjoyable. It's a pleasure to play with such people.
>Marcin, while the game might not apply any kind of "smoothing", the controller and system itself might.
(...) To him it seemed that the compensate for inaccurate tracking by applying some kind of filter or relying more on the IMU sensors inside. Now, don't quote me on this, maybe the Touch controllers are just really good. But people have said many times that there is no way LED lights can compare to actual laser tracking
You may be right!! RecRoom dev said that there's no aim assist, then it's probably a "smoothing" filter applied by Oculus to their controllers that makes me so accurate. That makes a lot of sense actually, especially if you consider that I stand still and try to hold my hand as still as possible during the game. (If you read my posts you already know why). Probably Vive controllers don't smooth-out my hand movement as much as Oculus Touch controllers do. My feeling is that Vive controllers are significantly more precise, more reallistically represent every little move or subtle shaking of my hands - but at the same time that makes them more difficult to use and makes the gameplay more challenging (but also more rewarding) in games like RecRoom paintball.
>The more room scale and 360 users, the better. Because it is the future. If VR becomes just stationary gameplay in the future, I'd most likely give up on it.
I agree again. Room scale is awesome. I wish I could use it more, but I can't (my spine is hurting me, plus I have really tiny play space). I just hope that I am in a minority of players, and that more and more games will allow other people to use their larger rooms and 360 tracking. There are already some games and experiences where I could make use of a larger room, e.g. tabble tennis, pool (billard), virtual travel apps, home design, painting/modelling apps etc. Room scale is awesome and it's a future!
I have another random suggestion for paintball. The names that float above our heads? That should be turned off in Paintball if you ask me. Many times people will be in cover, completely hidden. The only reason I see them, is because their name is either so long that it is partially out of cover, or it is clipping through the cover/wall/object. I sometimes hide under the bridges in the first level, but since my name is hovering over my head, people know that I'm under the bridge. I use the floating name so many times to figure out exavtly where people are. Even more so on the new sniper map.