Cheating in paintball?

[Dash]

Today I got shot over and over by one user, when the paintballs had barely even begun to move. The guy would appear, shoot, and I would die while his first shot was in flight. In some cases, I died without seeing the shot at all. In another case, the guy took two shots, both went wide, and I still died.

I have been playing paintball long enough (86 hours) and have seen an occasional lag issue, but this was something else. Is there some new cheat available, or can I have been seriously lagged or something?

Incidently, this was the first game in over a week where I didnt get disconnected due to an error 104x

[RocketshipVirus]

Originally posted by Goodman:

Had a guy tonight (can give name to developer if required) who was teleporting very short distances but super fast. Everyone asked why and he said "he had levelled up prestige". ;) I'm guessing that's a lie and he had either found an in game way to do this or an external way but seemed like a cheat to me! ;)

I was in that match with you. You had the British accent and we were on the map River. I report that play. To the Dev that responded to Goodman's post, yes he was able to shoot and use grenades. He was moving around at the same speed like when in the locker room or disc golf. He was flying around the map but because of how often he was teleporting it was easy to hear/find him. I really need to start recording these games for video proof.

[gribbly]

Hmmm thanks for letting us know. Busy right now pushing some bug fixes, etc., but please be aware we are monitoring this thread!

[emi]

I started playing Rec Room last week. Regarding the possibility of cheating players, can people actually hit you through a wall?

I was on the first floor of the barn on the mill map. I was [shamefully] camping, waiting for people to climb the ladder. One guy called Vlad wouldn't stop shooting me and kill me even though i was sitting on my room's floor for almost 20 seconds.

Same thing happened on the tower. Same guy killed me like 4 times while i was proning in the floor.

[VotaVader]

Originally posted by emilianito el emilianistico:

I started playing Rec Room last week. Regarding the possibility of cheating players, can people actually hit you through a wall?

I was on the first floor of the barn on the mill map. I was [shamefully] camping, waiting for people to climb the ladder. One guy called Vlad wouldn't stop shooting me and kill me even though i was sitting on my room's floor for almost 20 seconds.

Same thing happened on the tower. Same guy killed me like 4 times while i was proning in the floor.

Hehe, yes, it is possible since your torso is not collideable with the floor. So if you literally go prone on your play area, in-game your head will be near the floor, but your torso will be dangling underneath you on the lower level. :P

[Frod]

It is possible for players to stick their gun/body through walls to shoot (though unsportsman).

You should also note that if you get close to a wall or the ground (on a higher floor) your body can clip through it, in which case a player can shoot your exposed body.

Other unsportsman things IMO:
-Sitting on the ground and moving would also be unsportsman
-Being a good player and relying on a shotgun and shield
-Uneven team farming the opponnet's base

Lag can also be an issue, but can't be helped too much currently.

I haven't found camping to be an issue in this game, as most areas have multiple openings. If your constantly moving you'll do far better than a person a camping.

The only cheating I've found are players teleporting really high in the sky, though this leaves them very exposed to well aimed shots.

[WiseDuck]

A few things worth mentioning. First off, hiding inside objects. Since the "out of bounds" warning does not appear when inside bales of hay, boxes and stacked tires, you can hide in these and stay completely silent and then step outside and shoot people that are looking for you. I sometimes do this for ♥♥♥♥♥ and giggles, but only like, once every 5-10 matches or so. It's not something I abuse, but it's there and can be abused. However, if the opponent grabs a grenade, you're pretty much screwed.

Second, certain boulders on the Quarry level. You can hide inside these, for example the ones on the left side of the map, close to the lounge/starting area. People inside the rocks can shoot at players outside of them, players on the outside can not shoot in. (Your weapon is not unable to shoot like inside objects on other maps) This is VERY easy to abuse, but very few seem to do it and it's easy enough to avoid such players. But I wonder if this is possible in other areas of the map, large parts of the middle is covered by rocks, small cliffsides and so on. I do not know if you can also hide in these and still shoot people.

It is still possible to somehow climb to very top of the level, up to the tower in the blue and red bases in Quarry. I don't know how, but I've seen it happen. Personally, I don't mind. I think it's a shame the ladders were removed, since it was a lot of fun to snipe from way up there. I didn't feel that it was overpowered or anything to be up there since people quickly target you if you're a sniper.

[Dash]

Originally posted by RocketshipVirus:

I was in that match with you. You had the British accent and we were on the map River. I report that play. To the Dev that responded to Goodman's post, yes he was able to shoot and use grenades. He was moving around at the same speed like when in the locker room or disc golf. He was flying around the map but because of how often he was teleporting it was easy to hear/find him. I really need to start recording these games for video proof.

Wasn't me was it?
I've been accused of cheating several times because I seem to move very fast, but actually all I do is keep pressing on the trackpad really quickly so as soon as the teleport cooldown is complete i jump again. You'll see players ()especially the beginners) holding the teleport button down and moving the landing site just right. I don't do that, and in fact, all you have to do is watch where they are about to teleport to and you can fire at it, before they even teleport. I also anticipate where players are, and where they will move to, and try to head them off. This isn't cheating but it might look like getting a head start at times.
Another thing is to fire a shot that you just know its on target, and so dont bother to hang around to see when it impacts. Jumping past people to get behind them also makes you seem fast, but thats just because its hard to track the movement. I also fire where I think players are going to jump to next. Most players just stand still and shoot over and over to try and get a hit, so I can see how it'd appear like fast teleporting/cheating, even when its not.

If anyone thinks my play is cheating I'm happy for the devs to monitor what I do and publish the result. If I am lagged, or other players are lagged, its not intentional and it's basically up to recroom to provide some european server. Everything else is just me trying my best to be faster than the opponent.

[Dash]

Originally posted by WiseDuck:

A few things worth mentioning. First off, hiding inside objects

I don't think that's much of a cheat, since I'll score 30 points by rushing at the enemy over and over, but the guy in the box will score 1 or 2 if he's lucky. Just leave them sitting inside their box. It's pretty boring in there.

[RocketshipVirus]

Originally posted by Dash:

Originally posted by RocketshipVirus:

I was in that match with you. You had the British accent and we were on the map River. I report that play. To the Dev that responded to Goodman's post, yes he was able to shoot and use grenades. He was moving around at the same speed like when in the locker room or disc golf. He was flying around the map but because of how often he was teleporting it was easy to hear/find him. I really need to start recording these games for video proof.

Wasn't me was it?
I've been accused of cheating several times because I seem to move very fast, but actually all I do is keep pressing on the trackpad really quickly so as soon as the teleport cooldown is complete i jump again. You'll see players ()especially the beginners) holding the teleport button down and moving the landing site just right. I don't do that, and in fact, all you have to do is watch where they are about to teleport to and you can fire at it, before they even teleport. I also anticipate where players are, and where they will move to, and try to head them off. This isn't cheating but it might look like getting a head start at times.
Another thing is to fire a shot that you just know its on target, and so dont bother to hang around to see when it impacts. Jumping past people to get behind them also makes you seem fast, but thats just because its hard to track the movement. I also fire where I think players are going to jump to next. Most players just stand still and shoot over and over to try and get a hit, so I can see how it'd appear like fast teleporting/cheating, even when its not.

If anyone thinks my play is cheating I'm happy for the devs to monitor what I do and publish the result. If I am lagged, or other players are lagged, its not intentional and it's basically up to recroom to provide some european server. Everything else is just me trying my best to be faster than the opponent.

Your name doesnt ring a bell. The guy from the game I was referring to was moving at the same speed like in locker room or disc golf. He didn't have a cool down to his teleport. I do the exact same tactic as you do. The person I am refering to was moving around very quickly like he was a spectator but was able to shoot people. My guess is either he either he is messed with the the way the game views spectators or it glitched during the join team/spectate modes. Pretty sure he got kicked from the match so if you havn't been kicked on River before then it wasn't you. Just bringing awarness to the Devs so they can look into it and see if it was a glitch/bug or if he was in fact cheating.

[Roomera]

This is a great thread. Keep up the great work - fantastic things are happening with Rec Room.

A few related comments:
1) More experienced players + less experienced players = lots of accusations of cheating. I've seen this a lot myself and it's not a great experience on either side. I'm not sure how you guys are doing team balancing, but it doesn't appear to take player skills/records into account?
2) The removal of the stats board reduces the pressure of competition, but is also removes validation for more experienced/skilled players. I know there's a delicate balance to strike here but I think it'd be great to factor this into the scoreboard, so players have a better idea of who they're matched up against.
3) I'd echo the comments on lag time. Some metric to show people's connection speeds would go a long way.

Again, Rec Room is a fantastic product, and I love how fast the iterations have been. Wishing you guys the best of success.

[gribbly]

Yeah we're aware that the "skill gap" might be becoming a problem... how do you think we should handle?

In the next few weeks we're going to be looking at:

1) How to handle the situation where you're playing 4v4 paintball and two players leave to make it 4v2. Should you be able to re-balance to 3v3 on the fly?

2) How to handle skill gap?

Leaderboards will come back... otherwise Jong Yi will kill me!

[Roomera]

Originally posted by gribbly:

Leaderboards will come back... otherwise Jong Yi will kill me!

Hah! That's good to hear.

This seems a bit off-topic, so we could go into in a different thread, but it looks like there's a few elements:
1) Initial team assignment
2a) Team re-balancing when someone leaves
2b) Team balancing when the score is highly deviated (i.e. 50-10)

If you guys are prioritizing overall fun, 2b goes a long way in keeping things balanced but obviously wouldn't apply to more competitive (or tournament) games.

Not sure how much knowledge/research you've already done, but here are a few links you might found helpful, ranging from more basic to more advanced:
http://splittingred.com/2013/06/20/teams-partitions-oh-my/
http://www.moserware.com/2010/03/computing-your-skill.html
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=12029
http://blog.dota2.com/2013/12/matchmaking/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

The systems that take individual k/d's into account (i.e. lower ranked player hits/defeats higher ranked player and gets a larger ranking bump) can lead to really interesting results.

[RIPalot]

Yesterday i was playing a game with a friend and there was this guy in his team that could make te most amazing shots. 1 shot hits from halfway down the map. At the end of the game he appologized to everybody for cheating because he had to teach someone a lesson. There is a known cheat out there for aiming but i haven't figured out how they do it.

[Kiwachan]

Originally posted by gribbly:

Yeah we're aware that the "skill gap" might be becoming a problem... how do you think we should handle?

In the next few weeks we're going to be looking at:

1) How to handle the situation where you're playing 4v4 paintball and two players leave to make it 4v2. Should you be able to re-balance to 3v3 on the fly?

2) How to handle skill gap?

Leaderboards will come back... otherwise Jong Yi will kill me!

Say Hi to JongYiiii

1) When the paintball game is going down because 4v3 -> 4v2 -> 4v1, let's say that it's caused because the losing team members are being frustrated because the unequal team skill, and they look at their watch to change the map and try another match.

I propose new buttons in the watch:
- Surrender --> like kick player voting system, all [remaining] team members must agree.
- Ask for rebalance --> all players in the match must agree. This option maybe can be disabled under certain rules, but if I'm on winning team I also want to be able to propose it.

2) Maybe the previous option can be enough to rebalance skills on both teams. If not, i see two options: bots, or more bots :P

Also to have any kind of timed invulnerability or invisibility when you respawn in your base may help unskilled people or losing team. The more you die, the more you can benefit this perk (having an obvious max-time limitation). If you don't die for a while or if you hit somebody, you reset or lose this help.

So unskilled people may feel more confortable when they are overwhelmed and surrounded by enemies having an opportunity to turndown the game.

EDITED: also if this timed invulnerability helps me to not unfairly die-when-dead and respawn without no gun, perfect!!! It happened today a couple of times :(

[Dash]

If a team is losing 40-3 give them all machine guns