Children

[Dash]

I'm really disappointed in the No Children thing, which has been pushed into further prominance in the update. RecRoom is loved by children, and there's very few games in VR which are suitable for children.

[RocketshipVirus]

Invite Only option. Parent open the game and create an invite only lobby for their child. That way they aren't with the rest of the players. Otherwise with the new reporting update anyone that seems younger than 13 can get reported for not following Rec Room's Code of Conduct. Pretty hyped to go on a reporting streak now that the update is live again.

[WiseDuck]

I understand why they limit it to people 13 and up. Wasn't it some sort of liability thing? With that said, I really don't mind the kids in this game. They're having fun, lots of it. They're probably having more fun than we are. And I try to be a good sport with these people, teach them how things work if they have questions etc.

They've covered their backs with the code of conduct thing in the beginning, there's no need to ruin their day if they're not bothering your game. Seriously. Imagine if you were a kid and your father got an HTC Vive, you'd be BEGGING to play it every day.

[gribbly]

Dash, appreciate the feedback, but our no kids under 13 policy is not negotiable. We are an online game where people interact freely. We can't guarantee a suitable environment for children, so we don't offer it.

[Dash]

You can't even guarantee a suitable environment for adults. It's rampant racism and sexual abuse.

[WiseDuck]

Welcome to the internet/online gaming!

[PrimeMotile]

I happily take a full refund if my daugther cant play. This is like a toy and its awful to ban buyers for letting thier kids play. This isnt some AAA game just for adults for gods sake, you play ping pong and cartoon paintball.

[RocketshipVirus]

Originally posted by PrimeMotile:

I happily take a full refund if my daugther cant play. This is like a toy and its awful to ban buyers for letting thier kids play. This isnt some AAA game just for adults for gods sake, you play ping pong and cartoon paintball.

You are getting a refund for a free game? WOW

[Na'vi]

Originally posted by PrimeMotile:

I happily take a full refund if my daugther cant play. This is like a toy and its awful to ban buyers for letting thier kids play. This isnt some AAA game just for adults for gods sake, you play ping pong and cartoon paintball.

Dude it a Free to play Game what you going to get a refund on you VR

[VotaVader]

Originally posted by PrimeMotile:

I happily take a full refund if my daugther cant play. This is like a toy and its awful to ban buyers for letting thier kids play. This isnt some AAA game just for adults for gods sake, you play ping pong and cartoon paintball.

Hi PrimeMotile, we're sorry to see you go. Unfortunately the "over 13" rule is not something we have much choice in. There is a law called the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act[en.wikipedia.org] that heavily restricts and regulates what an online service (website, game, etc.) that allows children can and has to do, especially those that collect data from their users (email, name, and such). We are a small studio and these regulations are very complicated and expensive to enforce, so we're not currently able to guarantee their compliance, therefore it would be illegal for us to promote this game for children under 13. In fact, we are obligated to clearly state that the game in its current state IS NOT suitable for children of that age. We're really sorry of the consequences this has for you, and we're aware that a lot of parents thought of Rec Room as a good game for their children to experience VR, but at this moment, with our current resources, it's outside our scope to support this.

Hope it clears things up a bit.

[RocketshipVirus]

Originally posted by VotaVader:

Originally posted by PrimeMotile:

I happily take a full refund if my daugther cant play. This is like a toy and its awful to ban buyers for letting thier kids play. This isnt some AAA game just for adults for gods sake, you play ping pong and cartoon paintball.

Hi PrimeMotile, we're sorry to see you go. Unfortunately the "over 13" rule is not something we have much choice in. There is a law called the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act[en.wikipedia.org] that heavily restricts and regulates what an online service (website, game, etc.) that allows children can and has to do, especially those that collect data from their users (email, name, and such). We are a small studio and these regulations are very complicated and expensive to enforce, so we're not currently able to guarantee their compliance, therefore it would be illegal for us to promote this game for children under 13. In fact, we are obligated to clearly state that the game in its current state IS NOT suitable for children of that age. We're really sorry of the consequences this has for you, and we're aware that a lot of parents thought of Rec Room as a good game for their children to experience VR, but at this moment, with our current resources, it's outside our scope to support this.

Hope it clears things up a bit.

WOW. I didn't know this rule was becuase of legal issues. I think Dash would want to know this.

[Dr. Sunchips]

If the devs don't want to refund the game I can give this guy his money back for you.

[Skwerley]

Originally posted by VotaVader:

Originally posted by PrimeMotile:

I happily take a full refund if my daugther cant play. This is like a toy and its awful to ban buyers for letting thier kids play. This isnt some AAA game just for adults for gods sake, you play ping pong and cartoon paintball.

Hi PrimeMotile, we're sorry to see you go. Unfortunately the "over 13" rule is not something we have much choice in. There is a law called the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act[en.wikipedia.org] that heavily restricts and regulates what an online service (website, game, etc.) that allows children can and has to do, especially those that collect data from their users (email, name, and such). We are a small studio and these regulations are very complicated and expensive to enforce, so we're not currently able to guarantee their compliance, therefore it would be illegal for us to promote this game for children under 13. In fact, we are obligated to clearly state that the game in its current state IS NOT suitable for children of that age. We're really sorry of the consequences this has for you, and we're aware that a lot of parents thought of Rec Room as a good game for their children to experience VR, but at this moment, with our current resources, it's outside our scope to support this.

Hope it clears things up a bit.

The fact that this isn't obvious to people is astounding. Even if you don't know the legal aspect, why on earth would you want/allow a child to go into what is essentially a chatroom, with adults, who use fake names, and have avatars that represent parts of their body?

I understand the initial desire but once the developer tells you it's not a suitable environment for children and you go on an entitlement hissy fit, especially asking for a refund (for a free game, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ lol) as if the world owes your child entertainment.

Sidenote, I sympathize with the devs on this one. I own a bar IRL. Children, drunk people, and anonymous internet customers all seem to have a whole lot in common.

[Dash]

Originally posted by RocketshipVirus:

WOW. I didn't know this rule was becuase of legal issues. I think Dash would want to know this.

I do know this, and although I'm not a lawyer I think the devs just haevn't really looked into it, because it seems very easy to avoid COPPA restrictions.

Firstly, the act only applies for services that have actual knowledge that they are collecting, using and/or disclosing personal information they collect online DIRECTLY from a child under 13. If RecRoom put a "Are you over 13? Yes/No" at the start, this frees them from most of the COPPA restrictions. If it's later shown that the user answered untruthfully then COPPA notice and parental consent is triggered.

Second, if RecRoom allowed "guest" logins where no data is collected, or they allowed a child to use their parents account, then they would not be bound by COPPA afaik. COPPA only applies to information collected DIRECTLY FROM children. If I let my son use my RecRoom account, technically RecRoom are only collecting MY personal information, not the childs. COPPA is there to protect the childs own account only. Audio counts as data, but transmission of audio is exempt from COPPA, only if RecRoom are recording the audio (and we are transmitting) does COPPA apply.

Thirdly, COPPA allows the devs to add a parental consent for services covered by COPPA, which I would give, but sadly they have not offered this feature. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2013/12/ftc-grants-approval-new-coppa-verifiable-parental-consent-method
This would only involve giving me, the parent, the right to see what information they are collecting from the child, and the right to prevent this, and a requirement to delete it when its not needed. Not too hard to implement.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, but 5 mins of googling will tell you what's needed to either implement COPPA compliance, or side step it completely.

[Skwerley]

Originally posted by Dash:

Originally posted by RocketshipVirus:

WOW. I didn't know this rule was becuase of legal issues. I think Dash would want to know this.

I do know this, and although I'm not a lawyer I think the devs just haevn't really looked into it, because it seems very easy to avoid COPPA restrictions.

Firstly, the act only applies for services that have actual knowledge that they are collecting, using and/or disclosing personal information they collect online DIRECTLY from a child under 13. If RecRoom put a "Are you over 13? Yes/No" at the start, this frees them from most of the COPPA restrictions. If it's later shown that the user answered untruthfully then COPPA notice and parental consent is triggered.

Second, if RecRoom allowed "guest" logins where no data is collected, or they allowed a child to use their parents account, then they would not be bound by COPPA afaik. COPPA only applies to information collected DIRECTLY FROM children. If I let my son use my RecRoom account, technically RecRoom are only collecting MY personal information, not the childs. COPPA is there to protect the childs own account only. Audio counts as data, but transmission of audio is exempt from COPPA, only if RecRoom are recording the audio (and we are transmitting) does COPPA apply.

Thirdly, COPPA allows the devs to add a parental consent for services covered by COPPA, which I would give, but sadly they have not offered this feature. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2013/12/ftc-grants-approval-new-coppa-verifiable-parental-consent-method
This would only involve giving me, the parent, the right to see what information they are collecting from the child, and the right to prevent this, and a requirement to delete it when its not needed. Not too hard to implement.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, but 5 mins of googling will tell you what's needed to either implement COPPA compliance, or side step it completely.

The COPPA explanation is what people who are held accountable for other people's actions refer to as "being diplomatic."

They don't want kids in the game because 30% of the playerbase is walking around calling each other fa--ots and harrassing them. Drawing vulgar ♥♥♥♥ with the charades gun and generally doing exactly what you'd expect people to do in VR. There's also the uncomfortable matter of child predators that would absolutely not hesitate to use Rec Room for their purposes.

On the less grim side, kids 13 and under are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ *awful* to play video games with online. Right now, myself and lots of other people will/would buy something from the devs for this game. That would absolutely not be the case if I had to listen to 9 year old children squealing at each other every time I wanted to play. They are worse than any adult troll could hope to be.


The devs, I'm sure, understand all of these risks, but for the sake of diplomacy and being PR friendly, generally in the world of business you're not allowed to answer questions about features and restrictions with; "Well because customers are selfish destructive ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who will find any and every way to mess up everyone else's fun and take every opportunity to exploit whatever ammeneties you offer, so now we have to do this."

I fully sympathize with them.

[Dash]

Maybe kick out the vulgar drawing, fa-ot calling idiots and let the kids play instead. As pointed out previously, there are plenty of places where that kind of behavior would fit right in.