Turn off friendly fire?

[DeadPoolX]

I know some people might see "friendly fire" as a fun game mechanic, but my wife and I really prefer games where we can't accidentally incinerate one another. Is there an option to switch it off or is this going to be a slaughterfest like Magicka?

[Sombrero]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Warp:

Początkowo opublikowane przez DeadPoolX:

Guys, I don't think you get it. To some of you, friendly fire might make a game more fun and interesting, but not to everyone. If they dislike it, then that's all there is to it.

Besides, all anyone here is asking for is an option. A toggle to turn friendly fire on or off, not remove it entirely. You can never go wrong with more options since it makes the game better for everyone.

Would an option to remove all enemies from a Dark Souls game fit in the game itself? No, it wouldn't.
The same question can be asked for the Nine Parchments: would an option to remove friendly fire in a game built and balanced around that fit in the game itself? The answer is arguably no.

The game is built around friendly fire. It's a core mechanic. Wreaking havoc in multiplayer is the game. Overcoming the difficulty of friendly fire to progress is the game.
We get what you want. And what people are saying, is that you basically want an option to remove a big part of what makes the game. And to that request, we say that not all "options" belong in a game.

-----

That being said... There is one thing that people legitimately might have against the game. It's that this core feature is absolutly not well represented in trailers, descriptions and such. While games like Magicka and Helldivers capitalize on the idea, Nine Parchments doesn't, and that's a clear mistake from Frozenbyte. People should be aware of what the game is built on from the get go. And that's currently not the case.

That's a very valid point. The problem comes more from the fact that friendly fire isn't an obvious "feature" at first. But I don't think it's that big of a deal. If we follow that logic falling in a pit in any platformer means death in most games but it's never said in trailer. The most "logic" would be to have friendly fire in a game if we follow a purely non videogame logic. And honestly it's not a feature that is a huge problem either. You just have to learn to get used to it. Or you can simply play very defensively (some characters can heal like crazy for example).

Also easy mode is there for people not used to friendly fire, and can switch later on to harder difficulties.

[Hunubul]

People here just say "omg friendly fire can't be turned off I will never buy this game". You don't even know if the game is hard or not. You didn't try the game. You have no idea what friendly fire in this game means. There is Steam's return policy, as others already said. You can safely try the game, then get a refund if you don't like it. No questions asked.

Also, as others said already, this is a core feature. Making an option to disable it would destroy all the balance there is. Rebalancing the game with FF off would be an unnecessary amount of work.

Lastly, not every game is for everyone. There are other options if you don't like this game. But as already said many times, you won't know if you like the game or not until you actually try it.

[DeadPoolX]

Actually, I didn't say I'd "never buy this game." I might, but I'll definitely wait for a MAJOR sale. I'm not saying the game is bad, but most games take more than two hours to get a real feel for them and by that time you can't get a refund. Having a demo available would help a lot.

As for friendly fire... I've played games with friendly fire on (Magicka is a good example because you're mages in that game as well) and that wasn't fun. It was extremely annoying and pretty much ruined the game for my wife and me. Yes, we knew FF would be on in that game, but we thought "maybe it won't be that bad" and we were wrong.

TLDR: We've played games with FF on and hated it, therefore we'll either wait for a demo (because it takes more than two hours to get a feel for a game) or a sale where it's 75% off or more.

[Hunkulees]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Baby:

Początkowo opublikowane przez YeOldeGamerSteve:

Wanted this but I have to say the whole friendly fire is a total deal breaker for me.
if there was at least an option to disable it, I'd buy but as there isn't. I'm out.

If your team isn't braindead and you learn how to position yourself, then there's no problem.
Besides, resing your team takes no time and there's healing spells.
You're such a crybaby cuck lmao.

Or...maybe the poster has kids and wants everyone to be able to play together and have fun? Why the toxic hating, man?

I doubt that I would it toggle it off, but if I was trying to include the family then absolutely I would so I totally get why someone would want to, and honestly don’t think it’s too much to ask for an option to toggle it off. I think it’s a little arrogant for the devs to imply that he’s basically not playing it right

I have a feeling if I played it with my kids they’d be constantly killing each other for about 5 mins, then lose interest and the fun would be over so I get it.

Hang in there man. Modders tend to fix things that deaf developers (who are too convinced that they are the most clever person in the room to realize that some people want to play differently than they do) refuse to change

[Varg]

Początkowo opublikowane przez The Frog Who Ate Ponion:

Lastly, not every game is for everyone. There are other options if you don't like this game. But as already said many times, you won't know if you like the game or not until you actually try it.

This.

You don't go around expecting every game to suit your standards and taste and demand that devs "fix it" if it doesn't.
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mainstream-millenial-crybaby-behaviour :p :D

Of course asking if a feature will be implemented is another story, as in this case.

[CLN Flushed]

Początkowo opublikowane przez myrothe:

I think it’s a little arrogant for the devs to imply that he’s basically not playing it right

Dude, they literally made the game, they literally BUILT IT around a way to play it right...

[Fyce]

Początkowo opublikowane przez DeadPoolX:

Actually, I didn't say I'd "never buy this game." I might, but I'll definitely wait for a MAJOR sale. I'm not saying the game is bad, but most games take more than two hours to get a real feel for them and by that time you can't get a refund. Having a demo available would help a lot.

As for friendly fire... I've played games with friendly fire on (Magicka is a good example because you're mages in that game as well) and that wasn't fun. It was extremely annoying and pretty much ruined the game for my wife and me. Yes, we knew FF would be on in that game, but we thought "maybe it won't be that bad" and we were wrong.

TLDR: We've played games with FF on and hated it, therefore we'll either wait for a demo (because it takes more than two hours to get a feel for a game) or a sale where it's 75% off or more.

I don't really understand why you'd need more than 2 hours to get what a 5-6 hours game has to offer and how it plays.
You can probably get how "invasive" friendly fire is in less than 10 minutes, and then try on the other options (reverse ff, 50/50...) for half an hour at most.

But, again, the game is built on that. So if you absolutly hated Magicka, you won't like Nine Parchment. Getting killed by a teammate, planning for sweet "revenge" and then saying stuff like "you were supposed to throw that fireball on the boss, not on my face!" - "oh, soooooorry! It was clearly an accident!", all in a joking way is what these types of games are about. If that's not your jam and that you can't find joy/pleasure in that kind of "happy griefing" or that overcoming the difficulty of not blowing up your friends is not something that brings you satisfaction... Then no amount of hours to "test the game" will change that.

[Hunubul]

Początkowo opublikowane przez DeadPoolX:

Actually, I didn't say I'd "never buy this game."

Then what I said wasn't aimed at you?

Also you don't need more than 2 hours to test if FF would bother you or not. Also you may have seen many examples that games could be refunded way past 2 hours of gametime. It's a risk, but many people already did that with lots of games.


And you should know, that demos usually contain only single-player content, meaning you wouldn't be able to try out if ff is acceptable for you or not. Demanding demo doesn't help you in any way.



And I'll repeat myself:

Początkowo opublikowane przez The Frog Who Ate Ponion:

Lastly, not every game is for everyone. There are other options if you don't like this game. But as already said many times, you won't know if you like the game or not until you actually try it.

[DeadPoolX]

Początkowo opublikowane przez myrothe:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Baby:

If your team isn't braindead and you learn how to position yourself, then there's no problem.
Besides, resing your team takes no time and there's healing spells.
You're such a crybaby cuck lmao.

Or...maybe the poster has kids and wants everyone to be able to play together and have fun? Why the toxic hating, man?

I doubt that I would it toggle it off, but if I was trying to include the family then absolutely I would so I totally get why someone would want to, and honestly don’t think it’s too much to ask for an option to toggle it off. I think it’s a little arrogant for the devs to imply that he’s basically not playing it right

I have a feeling if I played it with my kids they’d be constantly killing each other for about 5 mins, then lose interest and the fun would be over so I get it.

Hang in there man. Modders tend to fix things that deaf developers (who are too convinced that they are the most clever person in the room to realize that some people want to play differently than they do) refuse to change

Finally, someone who's reasonable and not hostile to any idea that runs contrary to their own. Thank you. :)

Początkowo opublikowane przez Ulcerus:

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mainstream-millenial-crybaby-behaviour :p :D

Hardly a Millennial. I'm likely older than anyone else in this thread having been born in the 1970s.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Warp:

I don't really understand why you'd need more than 2 hours to get what a 5-6 hours game has to offer and how it plays.
You can probably get how "invasive" friendly fire is in less than 10 minutes, and then try on the other options (reverse ff, 50/50...) for half an hour at most.

Almost any game I've ever played has needed more than two hours to get a real feel for it unless it was so brain dead that it literally involved no thought whatsoever.

That said, I have absolutely no need whatsoever to justify my position to anyone here. I merely asked for an option and everyone lost their minds.

This is one of the reasons why I really dislike modern gaming. Everyone has this ridiculous "my way is the only way" attitude.

Początkowo opublikowane przez The Frog Who Ate Ponion:

Then what I said wasn't aimed at you?

Considering how rude everyone's been towards me at the mere suggestion of an option, it was only logical to think your statement was directed at me. Some individuals here really need to grow up.

Początkowo opublikowane przez The Frog Who Ate Ponion:

Also you don't need more than 2 hours to test if FF would bother you or not.

That's your opinion. You're welcome to it, but that doesn't mean you're right. I've always needed more than two hours.

Początkowo opublikowane przez The Frog Who Ate Ponion:

Also you may have seen many examples that games could be refunded way past 2 hours of gametime. It's a risk, but many people already did that with lots of games.

Actually, no, I haven't. I've never seen anyone getting a refund after two hours. I know I haven't.

That said, I have experienced Valve REFUSING to refund a game when my playtime is just under two hours. That scenario has happened more than a few times, so in my experience, anything close to the two hour mark is a write-off.

Początkowo opublikowane przez The Frog Who Ate Ponion:

And you should know, that demos usually contain only single-player content, meaning you wouldn't be able to try out if ff is acceptable for you or not. Demanding demo doesn't help you in any way.

Usually, but not always, especially not in a co-op game. It would be insane to release a single player-only demo for a title such as this.

Anyway... It's obvious no one here wants to entertain the notion that maybe more options couldn't hurt and certainly wouldn't ruin their own enjoyment. Therefore, there's no need to continue this aggravating discussion.

[Steve]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Baby:

Początkowo opublikowane przez YeOldeGamerSteve:

Wanted this but I have to say the whole friendly fire is a total deal breaker for me.
if there was at least an option to disable it, I'd buy but as there isn't. I'm out.

If your team isn't braindead and you learn how to position yourself, then there's no problem.
Besides, resing your team takes no time and there's healing spells.
You're such a crybaby cuck lmao.

Look sonny jim, I'm entitled to my opinion as long as I give it without causing offence or insulting people, which is something you need to learn son.

[Kev The Galaxybender]

I was going to pick this up for Xbox One for sure but friendly fire is a huge deal breaker for me. Im glad this topic was made. I dont care how hardcore the community think this is, its not for me. Playing with friends would be no issue but I was going to buy it to play with my wife and 6 year old daughter that likes games but they're not great at them so this would be a disaster. If an option to disable this was included from the get go I dont think there would be any epeen swinging about how this makes the game hardcore.

[Fyce]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Toph Bei Fong:

I was going to pick this up for Xbox One for sure but friendly fire is a huge deal breaker for me. Im glad this topic was made. I dont care how hardcore the community think this is, its not for me. Playing with friends would be no issue but I was going to buy it to play with my wife and 6 year old daughter that likes games but they're not great at them so this would be a disaster. If an option to disable this was included from the get go I dont think there would be any epeen swinging about how this makes the game hardcore.

So, working together and taking care about not throwing a fireball in your companion's face is "hardcore" and made to raise "epeen". Right. Gotcha.

*sigh*

Multiplayer mayhem games are made to be fun even in failure. Being bad can be fun. Death, in these games, have little impact as you can be raised very easily. If they are balanced correctly, obviously.

Also, being able to hurt others through your actions and having them react to it is probably not a bad lesson to teach a kid. But I digress.

Long story short: friendly fire doesn't make a game "hardcore". If simply gives you responsabilities toward others. If you don't like that, then that's fine, simply pick another game to play (I see you have Trine and Trine 2 on Steam but 0 hours of game time... Might be a good idea to start there). But please don't say silly things to imply that Nine Parchment is "hardcore", that's nonsense.

[EllaFB]

It seems that this is the most popular topic in Nine Parchments discussions area. Thank you all for your feedback. I will link this thread to the team and they can discuss about this.

I can't promise any changes as friendly fire is one of the core mechanics of this game. With quick thinking I was also able to think about one character unlock quest that is impossible to complete without friendly fire. It would also create huge issues to the balance as players would take less damage (and enemies too as they also have friendly fire). We would also need to separate these games somehow in the online games listing.

But we'll take a look of this. :)

Cheers!

[Screwyluie]

Początkowo opublikowane przez EllaFB:

It seems that this is the most popular topic in Nine Parchments discussions area. Thank you all for your feedback. I will link this thread to the team and they can discuss about this.

I can't promise any changes as friendly fire is one of the core mechanics of this game. With quick thinking I was also able to think about one character unlock quest that is impossible to complete without friendly fire. It would also create huge issues to the balance as players would take less damage (and enemies too as they also have friendly fire). We would also need to separate these games somehow in the online games listing.

But we'll take a look of this. :)

Cheers!

Thank you for giving this proper consideration. I just wanted to throw in my two cents really quick. As a family man there's enough strife in our daily lives, kids fighting, parenting, etc. Playing agrovating games just makes this all worse. I'm always on the look out for coop games I can play with my family as there's dreadfully few. However, as long as friendly fire, no multiplayer saves, and no private games are part of your game I can't see myself buying it.

[Kev The Galaxybender]

Początkowo opublikowane przez EllaFB:

It seems that this is the most popular topic in Nine Parchments discussions area. Thank you all for your feedback. I will link this thread to the team and they can discuss about this.

I can't promise any changes as friendly fire is one of the core mechanics of this game. With quick thinking I was also able to think about one character unlock quest that is impossible to complete without friendly fire. It would also create huge issues to the balance as players would take less damage (and enemies too as they also have friendly fire). We would also need to separate these games somehow in the online games listing.

But we'll take a look of this. :)

Cheers!

First and foremost, I want to thank you guys for even looking at the feedback and for your consideration. And second I want to thank you guys for making a game that is complete and not filled with loot boxes and microtransactions, and for allowing passion to drive the development and not a business model.

With that being said, I don't play games with friends very often anymore. I'm older, married, have a child, and we will usually play together. If I were to play this with the friends I used to game with, this wouldn't be an issue for me at all as we're all skilled enough to manage a mechanic like friendly fire. But my wife and daughter do not play games that often, but when we do it's always co op games like Diablo III, Fight N Rage, Castle Crashers, Gatling Gears, Assault Android Cactus, Guardian Heroes, Minecraft, a Kingdom for Keflings...etc games like that. where something such as friendly fire is not a factor and doesn't have a negative impact on us gaming together.

Playing a game with friendly fire would negate a lot of the fun for us. Having to manage something like that is something we don't want to have to worry about when trying to enjoy ourselves. It would bring things down for us. It's just not fun. This happened in Fight N Rage when the ability to attack each other was accidentally turned on. We all kept hurting each other, getting into each other's way and it became a chore for us until we turned it off. So for us, this game just does not work for us. Especially with how chaotic things can get. We want to become immersed and not have to worry about causing each other accidental grief, thus hampering the experience. And that is fine because there are other games out there for us to play and a lot of people seem to like this game just how it is. So my measly $20 won't matter to you guys because you're getting all the support you need.

I understand the game was designed with friendly fire in mind. I don't agree with the design choice. In my opinion just because a developer designed something a specific way, doesn't mean it's always the best choice for the game. I think an option to toggle it on and off would appease everyone but it's not my game as I didn't design it. And it's ok for me not to like it because not everyone is going to enjoy the same things. And seeing this is a core mechanic designed in the game, I wouldn't want you guys to change it if it's something you all are passionate about. Especially since it's a title that was created out of passion and not for the sake of business like something such as Star Wars Battlefront II where loot boxes are a mechanic tied to progression, which clearly is a awfully designed mechanic.

With that being said, I will be skipping out on this title. And I think you guys will be ok as I am only one guy. There are many other people who do enjoy the title so I think the game will perform just fine.