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Discussions Rules and Guidelines
8 
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- We can't have solos only face solos and duos only face duos because it would split up the queue, making queue times higher and overall matchmaking less fair
- We apply a rating adjustment to duos to account for their communication and coordination advantages. There is both a flat adjustment and a scaling adjustment, based on the gap in rating between the players duoing.
- We track win rates and data on solo and duos and make sure that both options are viable
- If you ask other players, a lot of them will tell you that soloing is completely viable or even advantageous over duoing. Personally, I solo the vast majority of my games
- You're right that soloing can be more frustrating because you'll occasionally get teammates who don't communicate well, but that's true no matter what. Finding someone to duo with might be in your interest (if not a friend, perhaps a teammate that you vibed well with)
Hope that helps explain things :)How can this be less fair if you play 1v1 or prem vs prem?
"We apply a rating adjustment to duos to account for their communication and coordination advantages"
Sorry, it's just not true. I have several screenshots with playing against duo with same rank and even higher rank as me. Looks like there is no way to add them to this message.
"If you ask other players, a lot of them will tell you that soloing is completely viable or even advantageous over duoing."
Is that a joke? What advantage you have vs premade as solo player with some random teammate who will just, for example, press AUTO and ignore you whole game?
"Finding someone to duo with might be in your interest (if not a friend, perhaps a teammate that you vibed well with)"
But I just want to play at any time I want, not looking for someone and stick to his/her time. What's the problem to add just 1v1 mode, additional for two existant? In OG Legion TD (Warcraft/Starcraft map) you can play 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 if you want.
1.) Person A is ranked #1. Person B is ranked #4. Persons C and D are ranked 2, and 3, respectively.
Person A messages Person B and goes "hey, I know Persons C and D hate teaming up and they ESPECIALLY hate each other. They're always in solo-queue and they're closing in on my rank, and therefore, getting further AHEAD of you. But, if WE team up together, we'll NEVER have to face them. Just follow my lead and I can get you to the #2 spot."
Persons A and B then form a duo, stay in duo-queue, and have successfully manipulated your proposed "singles are separate from duos" system.
This can never happen if there's only one queue. At best, you could be alerted (the scouting feature) when persons C and D are PLAYING, but they're still playing IN YOUR QUEUE. So they're still directly influencing the entire ranking.
2.) ELO is weighted. If there's a premade duo that you're solo-queing against, they will stand to gain FAR less ELO if they win, and LOSE far more if they lose. Vice versa for you; you will gain FAR more ELO if you beat a premade.
To help facilitate this, the game assigns a "bonus / malus" to the ELO of each TEAM; two bronzes pre-made together, will be ranked HIGHER overall than a bronze solo + silver solo, because the implicit assumption is that premades will benefit from enhanced coordination and communication.
It's all very easily observed in game, as well. Mouse over your ranking in the lower right at the lobby.
3.) On top of the advantages I just listed out on point #2, you also have what you talked about in your 4th point: the fact that you don't HAVE to wait for a friend to come online, come back from bio, feed his cat, etc.
4.) But as for the specifics of "why can't we have separate queues," it's more of a Slippery Slope type of thing. I don't think it would be "unreasonable," once those floodgates are opened, to demand several dozen queues:
- Solo Ranked
- Premade Ranked
- Solo Classic (no preference on Income and Chill)
- Premade (2's) Classic (no preference on Income and Chill)
- Premade (3's) Classic (no preference on Income and Chill)
- Premade (4's) Classic (no preference on Income and Chill)
- Solo Classic (YES to Income and Chill)
- Premade (2's) Classic (YES to Income and Chill)
And we can keep going with this, if you still don't see the problem. We have HOW many other things we could be voting for? "Premade but we BAN people from sending Witches but ONLY if Income and Chill is voted NO and ALSO we have NO PVE mode active AND ALSO only if everyone goes Crab?"
It WILL eventually reach that level of inanity. Guaranteed. It's what happened to Squad TD in the SC2 arcade. Dozens of Q's, and each game requiring 8 people. You do the math.
Bottom line, if the world were easily changed, everyone would line up to do it. Far easier, more efficient, and in most cases more pleasant, to simply change your perspective when dealing with it.
It's nonsence :) It's not some games with only 5 players online, and they know each other. In reality there will be 2 random players never meet each other against premade, that's all. Premade will do their thing to win. Random is random. If your random partner is able to communicate, this will be 50/50 game. If not, you lose. That's all. No ANY advantage for solo playes.
" ELO is weighted. If there's a premade duo that you're solo-queing against, they will stand to gain FAR less ELO if they win, and LOSE far more if they lose."
How is this fix the problem? Wow, they will have less ELO for unfair battle in their favor. So what? It's still unfair battle.
"two bronzes pre-made together, will be ranked HIGHER overall than a bronze solo + silver solo, because the implicit assumption is that premades will benefit from enhanced coordination and communication."
SO WHAT? As I say before, this can work if bronze premade will meet only 2 silver solo's in matchmaking, but it's not true. Solo Diamond 4+Solo Diamond 3 against Duo Diamond 1 is usual situation. Not only is we against two pre-made, but they are also higher in rank than we.
" On top of the advantages I just listed out on point #2, you also have what you talked about in your 4th point: the fact that you don't HAVE to wait for a friend to come online, come back from bio, feed his cat, etc."
Let me tell you a secret. Players are different. Some, like me, don't want to team up with anyone, they just want to play when it's convenient for them and have fun. The point of the game is to have fun. Even losing can be fun if it was an interesting, even battle. But there's no fun in playing five games in a row, all five of which are against premades, and the only thing that determines whether you win is whether your ally will try to play with you as a team or turn out to be another Russian troll, leaking six waves in a row to send an ogre once, while you're trying to stack Sakura. How can there be fun in playing this roulette?
"- Solo Ranked
- Premade Ranked
- Solo Classic (no preference on Income and Chill)
- Premade (2's) Classic (no preference on Income and Chill)
- Premade (3's) Classic (no preference on Income and Chill)
- Premade (4's) Classic (no preference on Income and Chill)
- Solo Classic (YES to Income and Chill)
- Premade (2's) Classic (YES to Income and Chill)"
Who cares about classic, lol? Only ranked mode is frustrating, because you have something to lose there. In classic noone cares. Solo ranked and premade ranked, that's all.
I'm sorry you feel that way.
What do you mean "so what?" The system is literally working and you admit it's working. You just don't like the degree to which it works. You think less than 200 ELO difference in mid-tier ranking is "make or break" territory when it really isn't.
Russia may be led by a fascist dictator (and seems pretty chummy with Trump to boot) but that has zero bearing on the people he exploits. Furthermore, if you think the "only thing" that determines YOUR win or loss, is your TEAM MATE, and you genuinely see nothing wrong with that statement, then there's literally nothing even remotely constructive I can say that will miraculous get through to you where the bathroom mirror failed.
I do. And so do lots and lots of other people. But more importantly, I was illustrating the concept of "Slippery Slope" - once we start making unique snowflake queues just for your delicate sensibilities, that's going to open the devs up to EVERYONE wanting THEIR own unique snowflake queue.
Way to miss the point, Dexter.
If it's working, premades will be LOWER in rank than non-premades. But I see opposite situation: almost every premade I meet will be higher in rank.
"if you think the "only thing" that determines YOUR win or loss, is your TEAM MATE, and you genuinely see nothing wrong with that statement, then there's literally nothing even remotely constructive I can say"
You can try, if you start to READ what I wrote, and try to understand EVERY point it that text, not only that 5% you have read. Once more:
1. Premade has plan and communication. Always.
2. My teammate is random. He will communicate or he will not.
3. If my teammate able to communicate, we can form up the plan. This gives us some almost fair battle, we can win or lose, based on our skill.
4. If he is not communicating, it's just lose because enemy team communicating, but we are not.
Reread these four points until you understand the meaning of what was said.
"I do. And so do lots and lots of other people."
You lose nothing if you lose your classic. It's not ranked, so there is no rank to lose.
I was going to respond to this in depth and with vigor, but then realized that this entire debacle can be summed up by an anime quote, of all things:
You just keep being you, my dude. Have a nice life.
But you have nothing to say, that's all. Attempt to get personal and squeak something about my life looks especially pathetic.
Solo 1850+Solo 1800 meets Duo 1950. Real situation from the game. How can it be with this formula?
"If the two solo 1400s win, they will gain +22. If they lose, they will only lose 10."
The main problem is there is no difference, will you lose 10 points or 20. The problem is unfair game, there you losing just because your random teammate is don't care about any strat and communication, but your enemies are premade. There is no frustration level in points, it's just exist of not exist. You queue 5 times, you meed 5 premades, 2 of 3 your teammates just ignoring everything and playing their own game (both games lost), 2 teammates can communicate, we won one game vs premade and we lost another one, it's okey, teammates was fine, playing to win. And last one is player from Taiwan who don't speak english and using google translator to communicate, we lose not because one of us plays badly, but because while we are trying to discuss what to do when one opponent has mostly only arcane damage, and the other does not have a swift/nat tank, which of them will be easier to push, time is running out.
In result we have:
2 unfair games with no teamwork vs teamwork.
2 nearly fair games (premade still have some advantage, because they had their plan before game and they have voice, we must chat and adapt, but it's not a big problem).
1 game with good and friendly teammate, but without communication (we both wasn't native english speakers, communication is too slow, and just pings were not enougth to understand each other in details).
2 of 5 games was terrible, no any fun in that. 2 games was fine. 1 game was sad, because even with friendly teammate we can't play as team. This is what I mean by "no fun". As about points, well, I lost some points, I don't remember how much, was that 10 points or 20 per game, but who cares? More than half of time spend gives only bad emotions. But the game itself is amazing, and I appreciate your job, you are great team. Paradox.
To the contrary: my issue is I often have too much to say, to people that aren't worth the effort. I'm trying a spoons thing, now; I've recouped one more for this thread for today.
It's not a paradox. You're being a hypocrite because the devs (and the occasional long time player like me) do not agree with your personal views and anecdotal evidence. That's all this is.
You spent what looks to be hundreds of words in that one post alone, and the only thing that matters is you think you have a problem that can only be solved by forcing the game to bend to your whim. That's a weird take to have from someone who claims to "appreciate" the devs and thinks they're "a great team."