Eggsack/hydra

[Bats]

So, bascially near mid/late game hydra is more or less useless....right? I've been wondering how they could make it more viable, maybe make it ranged and shoot 3 shots like mask? Or maybe every 3 waves it gains a new head and +900 health? Or maybe make it short ranged attack? If you hit a hydra with chieftain buff, or titan legion spell his first stage health pool goes up, but his split stays at 33% of his original max health. Why is that? I would think if you can buff the health, his split should split the new max health.

[SMUG KITTY]

Also if you give it the revive spell, you dont get 3 splits and a 1500 hp hydra that'll give 3 more splits after, its basically just a 1500 heal on it

[Bats]

Originally posted by SMUG KITTY:

Also if you give it the revive spell, you dont get 3 splits and a 1500 hp hydra that'll give 3 more splits after, its basically just a 1500 heal on it

Dood wat, that's big rip. I definitely think it's the worst of the "tanks". More like, thanks "no tanks, I'm outta here wit dat"

[Danwulfe]

Hydra's probably one of the best tanks, especially for delay. 4 units wrapped in one meaty dragon.

I don't really see a need for a buff for it at the moment, it does it's role very well and yes you'll need damage to help it out, but still for that delay it can cause it's so good.

[AutoAttackGames]

Eggsack is strong in 3 cases:
- As an opening. Grarl on wave 1. Sell it on wave 2 and build an Eggsack. Only try to defend the Eggsack on wave 3 if you've already been sent at least 20 myuthium; otherwise, let it die and train workers instead.
- If you're very strong on waves X and X+1 but weak on wave X+2. For example, if you have 2 Kingpins, you can drop an Eggsack on wave 11. Then your opponent has to either send on wave 12 to try to break your Eggsack or send on the Kingpin's weak wave (13) but let your Eggsack hatch into a fully-powered Hydra.
- In fed/rich/income-heavy games in the mid/late game around waves 14-15. For example, they attack you on wave 13, then instead of training workers, you build an Eggsack on wave 14, defend it on waves 14/15, then jam x2 workers on wave 16. So if you have Eggsack, try to play more income-heavy. For this reason, it's super strong in Classic 4v4 because everyone income sends every wave.

-Jules

[Bats]

Originally posted by AutoAttackGames:

Eggsack is strong in 3 cases:
- As an opening. Grarl on wave 1. Sell it on wave 2 and build an Eggsack. Only try to defend the Eggsack on wave 3 if you've already been sent at least 20 myuthium; otherwise, let it die and train workers instead.
- If you're very strong on waves X and X+1 but weak on wave X+2. For example, if you have 2 Kingpins, you can drop an Eggsack on wave 11. Then your opponent has to either send on wave 12 to try to break your Eggsack or send on the Kingpin's weak wave (13) but let your Eggsack hatch into a fully-powered Hydra.
- In fed/rich/income-heavy games in the mid/late game around waves 14-15. For example, they attack you on wave 13, then instead of training workers, you build an Eggsack on wave 14, defend it on waves 14/15, then jam x2 workers on wave 16. So if you have Eggsack, try to play more income-heavy. For this reason, it's super strong in Classic 4v4 because everyone income sends every wave.

-Jules

Oh shoot, thanks bunches for the reply. I see where you're coming from, and I did already know how to use it in instance 1, but not for the other 2. Also, I frikin love the game and I've got it for at least one friend so far. So freakin great job, seriously great job.

[!?!]

Yeah that hatching mechanic is super dumb.
It's high risk, lame reward.
Maybe it should power up and hatch on full mana every wave so there's more consistency and synergies with mana regen rather than paying a giant pile of gold that does nothing for 2 waves and may have you end up with something definitely not worth that gold if it breaks.

Originally posted by AutoAttackGames:

- In fed/rich/income-heavy games in the mid/late game around waves 14-15

Why the hell would you build a hydra beyond wave 2 rather than literally any other tank that doesn't need to be protected?
What does it do better than, say, a badger or a berserker? Cause for such a setup heavy unit, it doesn't even tank that well.
Meanwhile it mainly just blocks a unit slot that could be something actually useful.

[kezthezek]

You do it because it's great value for the money. That is , if it's not cracked.

For me egg is the most difficult unit in the game . Like Argentina with its planned economy , really hard to do it properly.

[AutoAttackGames]

Originally posted by !?!:

Why the hell would you build a hydra beyond wave 2 rather than literally any other tank that doesn't need to be protected?
What does it do better than, say, a badger or a berserker? Cause for such a setup heavy unit, it doesn't even tank that well.
Meanwhile it mainly just blocks a unit slot that could be something actually useful.

Let's compare Hydra to Antler, which most players consider to be a balanced tank.

Antler: 11.8 health / gold
Hydra (broken immediately): 13.5 health / gold
Hydra (broken after one wave): 16.4 health / gold
Hydra (full power): 19.9 health / gold

Hydra is the best tank in the game in terms of health / gold, even if it breaks. But of course, it requires you to take a risk with Eggsack and (sometimes optionally) invest into protecting it, so is it worth it? That's up to you to decide ;)

If you're curious, last patch, Eggsack was the 2nd highest win rate unit: 52.4%

Eggsack is really high skill cap and forces you to play differently, which is why most players don't pick it. The 4 areas of skill are:
- Positioning correctly on wave 3 to protect your Eggsack
- Knowing when to not invest into protecting your Eggsack on wave 3 (letting it break)
- Knowing when to build an Eggsack in the mid/late game
- Preparing in advance for mid/late game Eggsacks by forcing a fed/rich game with a lot of income sending

I agree with you that Eggack can sometimes block a unit slot and go completely unused the entire game - that definitely happens sometimes!

Originally posted by Bats:

Oh shoot, thanks bunches for the reply. I see where you're coming from, and I did already know how to use it in instance 1, but not for the other 2. Also, I frikin love the game and I've got it for at least one friend so far. So freakin great job, seriously great job.

Thank you! Glad you're enjoying the game <3

-Jules

[!?!]

Okay so I just built a wave 2 egg which survived my wave but then died to the leaks of my teammate and apparently that counts as broken.

Can that stop being a thing please?
Can I please only have to worry about keeping a tank alive on my terms?
Cause an all in strategy that requires your teammate not to leak wave 2 is just too much to ask.

Also that thing felt anything but "broken immediatelly" (aside from in a literal sense).
The only thing broken was my eco.
And then I had a tank that couldn't tank and dealt no damage. And then we lost.

[Rhonox]

Originally posted by !?!:

Cause an all in strategy that requires your teammate not to leak wave 2 is just too much to ask.

Egg isnt an "all in strategy" and even if it is broken immediately it is still a better tank than almost every other tank in the game.

Not leaking on wave 2 is not a high requirement by any sense, i would imagine there are newer players still getting the hang of the start of a match, but not leaking on wave 2 is not "too much to ask" especially when egg works just fine even if it is broken immediately

[!?!]

Originally posted by Snoogie:

Egg isnt an "all in strategy" and even if it is broken immediately it is still a better tank than almost every other tank in the game.

It's not.
It sucks if you want to tank for melee units like kingpin or pegasus or doppelganger or hell even some gateguards you want to summon twice.
It's literally the worst tank for that purpose and high value melee units creep into your roster via rerolls or mastermind all the time.

It has low hp and splits into multiple even lower hp units when it dies and every time something with aggro dies, the enemies pick a new target which may be the thing you don't want targeted.
There's also no upgrading the thing to raise its hp pool so it won't die in 2 seconds.
It'll always be stuck at 2730 hp or less, then it dies, then your other melee units eat hits which is funny because atlantean comes with 2 built in high value melee units in kingpin and deepcoiler along with a way to self-sabotage if you also build hydra, "the best tank in the game because math".
Give me a break.

Originally posted by Snoogie:

not leaking on wave 2 is not "too much to ask"

It was tho.
They leaked.

[Rhonox]

im not sure what part you dont understand, it has more stats for a lower cost even when broken right away. its basically just math.
what happens one time from one person in one game doesnt make it all of a sudden too much to ask....

[!?!]

And I just explained to you why math isn't everything and that maybe it is unreasonable to punish me for the failings of others by permanently hitting me in the defense even though on my own I pulled it off.
Read.

So I don't know about you but maybe on principle, it is kinda toxic to put a spotlight on your teammates leaks like that. People already rage hard enough as is and this is the only unit that can get crippled by your teammates leaks.
So maybe don't count the egg as broken outside your own wave or redo the whole thing altogether.