Question about leaving Dead Nations *spoiler*

[Turbo Nozomix]

What are the options for getting out of Dead Nations, when you don't have 16 Charisma?


http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/pc/planescape/dead_nations.shtml

This page suggests the following:

>> Now we will deal with the permission to exit the Dead Nations. There are a couple of ways to do this:

1. Kill some cranium rats for Hargrimm and then ask him to speak to the Silent King on your behalf (3750+7500 exp). Details;

That doesn't accomplish anything.

>> 2. After Hargrimm refuses to help you, ask Stale Mary to let you see the Silent King (3750 +7500 exp), this one requires 16 CHR;

Don't have 16 Charisma.

>> 3. Kill the rats for Hargrimm but don't ask him to speak to Silent King, then return to Mary and do the same as in step 2 (3750+3750+7500 exp), also requires 16 CHR.

Don't have 16 Charisma.


So, that guide shows two options, which both depend on having 16 Charisma. I have 11 Charisma, 17 Wisdom, 15 Constitution, 9 Intellect, 16 Strength.

Is there a way that doesn't involve fighting all the inhabitants of Dead Nations?

[figmentPez]

Did you deal with Soego yet? That's part of #1 on that list. Hargrimm only trusts you enough to talk to the Silent King on your behalf if you've proven yourself in multiple ways. It's not just killing cranium rats.

[Turbo Nozomix]

Originally posted by figmentPez:

Did you deal with Soego yet? That's part of #1 on that list. Hargrimm only trusts you enough to talk to the Silent King on your behalf if you've proven yourself in multiple ways. It's not just killing cranium rats.

Yup. I dealt with Soego and reported it to Hargrimm. I've also done the cranium rats thing.

Is there a 3rd way to impress Hargrimm, without needing Charisma 16?

[figmentPez]

Originally posted by Turbo Nozomix:

Yup. I dealt with Soego and reported it to Hargrimm. I've also done the cranium rats thing.

Is there a 3rd way to impress Hargrimm, without needing Charisma 16?

There shouldn't need to be. If you've killed all the cranium rats, then that should be enough to allow you free passage. You've either missed some rats, or run into a bug. I've done it that way on multiple playthroughs.

[Turbo Nozomix]

Originally posted by figmentPez:

Originally posted by Turbo Nozomix:

Yup. I dealt with Soego and reported it to Hargrimm. I've also done the cranium rats thing.

Is there a 3rd way to impress Hargrimm, without needing Charisma 16?

There shouldn't need to be. If you've killed all the cranium rats, then that should be enough to allow you free passage. You've either missed some rats, or run into a bug. I've done it that way on multiple playthroughs.

I didn't miss any. I got rid of them and reported it to Hargrimm. I then read Soego's journal and got rid of him and reported it to Hargrimm, and he still says he won't talk to the silent king.

[Turbo Nozomix]

Originally posted by figmentPez:

Originally posted by Turbo Nozomix:

Yup. I dealt with Soego and reported it to Hargrimm. I've also done the cranium rats thing.

Is there a 3rd way to impress Hargrimm, without needing Charisma 16?

There shouldn't need to be. If you've killed all the cranium rats, then that should be enough to allow you free passage. You've either missed some rats, or run into a bug. I've done it that way on multiple playthroughs.

Actually, it works. When I select "But I need permission to leave", Hargrimm talks to the silent king and then says I'm free to go.

I didn't find that before because there's no new chat option after doing those quests and being eligible to leave. But, asking the old chat option again gives a different response after doing those two quests.

[Astral Projection]

I ran into this (bug?) as well. My character has high Wis but low Chr. I ended up having to slaughter the entire place to get out with with Fighter main, Dak'Kon, and Morte.

Just pull a couple skeletons at a time with Morte's taunt ability and its easy XP.

[Turbo Nozomix]

Originally posted by Astral Projection:

I ran into this (bug?) as well. My character has high Wis but low Chr. I ended up having to slaughter the entire place to get out with with Fighter main, Dak'Kon, and Morte.

Just pull a couple skeletons at a time with Morte's taunt ability and its easy XP.

I don't know if it's a bug, though it certainly is an oversight in the dialog structuring.

To get Hargrimm to say you're allowed to leave, the player has to go through multiple tiers of old dialog that shows no change before or after doing those quests, before Hargrimm arbitrarily gives a different response at the end of the dialog choices.

It's like hiding a door needed to exit an area as a single pixel in some unrelated background environmental detail.

To me, it seems like it's another example of the sort of crummy design that some developers used back them which aimed to deliberately confuse and frustrate the player so that the player would spend money on strategy guides and game tip phone lines.

[Astral Projection]

^ yeah good point. Luckily they left the extreme violence method as a viable backup strategy. My main is Fighter with 22 Str so I actually don't mind.

Also, getting to meet the Silent King is pretty cool (no spoilers).

[GrimSentinel]

Originally posted by Turbo Nozomix:

Originally posted by Astral Projection:

I ran into this (bug?) as well. My character has high Wis but low Chr. I ended up having to slaughter the entire place to get out with with Fighter main, Dak'Kon, and Morte.

Just pull a couple skeletons at a time with Morte's taunt ability and its easy XP.

I don't know if it's a bug, though it certainly is an oversight in the dialog structuring.

To get Hargrimm to say you're allowed to leave, the player has to go through multiple tiers of old dialog that shows no change before or after doing those quests, before Hargrimm arbitrarily gives a different response at the end of the dialog choices.

It's like hiding a door needed to exit an area as a single pixel in some unrelated background environmental detail.

To me, it seems like it's another example of the sort of crummy design that some developers used back them which aimed to deliberately confuse and frustrate the player so that the player would spend money on strategy guides and game tip phone lines.

Based on this and a past thread, you seem to be having some trouble solving the puzzles in this game. If you understand how the game's systems work, though, it's not actually that complicated.

Some tips:
>Talk to everyone. And I don't mean, "Click through all the dialogue and then cross that person off your list." If you pay attention to what's being talked about, you'll find that almost all the information you'll need is contained in dialogue. This game is mostly about talking with people. And yes, you may have to talk with people more than once. New dialogue will frequently appear when TNO discovers new infomation or the situation changes.
>Be a hoarder. Fill your inventory and your companion's inventories with anything that seems important, and then whatever else you can fit in. Some puzzles need certain items to be solved, and this can save you some backtracking.
>Explore everywhere. Kind of obvious, but it's the only way to find more people and items.
>Your stats matter for more than just combat. High stats can open up new dialogue options. Intelligence will let you solve difficult mental challenges, wisdom gives you better understanding, charisma makes you more persuasive, strength makes you more intimidating, and dexterity lets you do stuff that requires quick hands. These aren't necessary, but provide a lot of better alternative solutions.
>If you get confused or forget something, your quest log lists all your current objectives, while the journal tab lists all the important information you've discovered in detail.

So, if we look at this puzzle logically:
The problem: You have been imprisoned by the Dead Nations.
The objective: To get out.

There are no less than FOUR solutions, each following a different strategy.

A. Convince Hargrimm.
>Speak to Hargrimm, the skeleton who demanded your surrender.
>Ask him why you have been imprisoned. He will tell you it was by order of the Silent King.
>Ask if the Silent King could be persuaded otherwise. He will say it is possible.
>Ask to speak to the Silent King. He will refuse to allow you.
>Point out that you need to speak to the Silent King to leave, and ask if he can be convinced to allow you. Hargrimm will ask about your mission
>Tell Hargrimm that you are looking for the bronze orb for Pharod, but have other loyalty to Pharod. He will decide you can be tolerated.
>Ask Hargrimm again if you can speak to the Silent King. He will still refuse, but will give you a task to do to gain his trust: Kill cranium rats in the Dead Nations.
>Search the Dead Nations, and you will find half a dozen cranium rats in a side passage. Kill them.
>Return to Hargrimm and report your success, and ask if you can speak to the Silent King now. Hargrimm again refuses.
>Ask what other task you can perform. Hargrimm will tell you that he wants an excuse to expell the Dustman missionary Soego from the Dead nations.
>Search Soego's room. TNO will note that the large metal box there has a compartment that can be opened, but he can't search Soego's belongings while he is watching.
>Search the rest of the Dead Nations. One of the undead there is the "Doubtful Skeleton", who is considering Soego's teachings. The journal will even note how Soego would be interested to hear this.
>Tell Soego of the Doubtful Skeleton, and he will leave the room to speak with him.
> Search Soego's possesions, and you'll find that his journal contains incriminating information.
>Either confront Soego, or tell Hargrimm and let him deal with Soego.
>Ask Hargrimm if you can speak with the Silent King now. He will refuse, but will agree to speak to the Silent King on your behalf. You will now be permitted to leave.

Which sounds rather complicated when it's all written out, but it basically boils down to "Keep asking Hargrimm if you can ask the Silent King to leave, and do the two tasks he gives you to gain his trust."

B. Use Charisma.
>Ask Hargrimm why you have been imprisoned. He will tell you it was by the orders of the Silent King.
>Explore the Dead Nations. You will find Stale Mary, the leader of the zombies, who is more compassionate than Hargrimm.
>With high enough Charisma, you can convince Stale Mary to let you speak to the Silent King. She will inform you of a portal you can use.
>Enter the throne room through the portal. There will be a conversation between you, Hargrimm, Stale Mary, and the Silent King, and they can be easily convinced to let you leave.

C. Violence.
>Kill Hargrimm for his key. Attacking him will make the rest of the Dead Nations hostile. He will patrol in a circle, and it's best to attack him when he is alone in the chapel.

D. Be a Thief.
>If you are a Thief, you can pickpocket Hargrimm for the key. Leaving without permission, though, will also turn the Dead Nations hostile.

[Turbo Nozomix]

Originally posted by GrimSentinel:

Originally posted by Turbo Nozomix:

I don't know if it's a bug, though it certainly is an oversight in the dialog structuring.

To get Hargrimm to say you're allowed to leave, the player has to go through multiple tiers of old dialog that shows no change before or after doing those quests, before Hargrimm arbitrarily gives a different response at the end of the dialog choices.

It's like hiding a door needed to exit an area as a single pixel in some unrelated background environmental detail.

To me, it seems like it's another example of the sort of crummy design that some developers used back them which aimed to deliberately confuse and frustrate the player so that the player would spend money on strategy guides and game tip phone lines.

Based on this and a past thread, you seem to be having some trouble solving the puzzles in this game. If you understand how the game's systems work, though, it's not actually that complicated.

Thanks for the tips, I'll keep them in mind!

[Hex: Corn Stalks]

i just played it again.. after dealing with Seogo, telling them he's a spy for the Cranium Rats, Hargrimm kills him... then yoiu goto Hargrimm, ask him to talk to the Silent King, and he does.