One thing that confuses me (story spoilers)

[BDtetra]

Was it ever specifically stated why Ravel tries to kill you? Is it really just because of jealousy?

[mikeydsc]

Did you finish her dialogue in her maze?








You asked to kill you

[BDtetra]

I beat the game, yeah, and this was one of the main plot points I was confused of unless I skimmed through some important dialogue. I don't remember NLO asking Ravel to kill you, just asking if she has the ability to bring back his mortality, and Ravel kind of goes off the rails after complimenting her so much (oh beautiful Ravel...) and suddenly gets mad and attacks you despite you urging her that you don't want to fight her.

[GrimSentinel]

In the conversation between Ravel and the Transcendent One, she says something like, "I thought dying at his hand would fulfill the requirements the past put forth." So it seems like she wanted the Nameless One to kill her, or at least think that he had. I think the reason was that she knew that the Transcendent One was going to come after her and was trying to avoid that.

[mikeydsc]

This basically the convo from the very beginning -

Centuries ago, the First Incarnation of the Nameless One came to her asking to make him immortal, to escape the horrible fate that awaited him upon his death. Through flattery and seduction, he convinced her to perform such a ritual. By removing his mortality, she had succeeded in making him immortal, which she immediately tested - by killing him. While he did resurrect shortly after, his memories did not, causing Ravel to realize the ritual was flawed. She then offered the amnesiac three wishes. His first is to know himself again, which Ravel grants, causing his second wish to take those awful memories away again, which she also grants. Now having forgotten the first two, he wishes to remember again. Just before granting his final wish, she tells him, "My poor, dear, lovely man-thing! Why, that was your first wish!"

So by asking her to make him immortal, he basically asked her to kill him to test the ritual to see if it worked.

He was trying to escape his death from the crimes he committed while he was alive. Some speculate he started the endless war in some way.

[GrimSentinel]

Originally posted by mikeydsc:

This basically the convo from the very beginning -

Centuries ago, the First Incarnation of the Nameless One came to her asking to make him immortal, to escape the horrible fate that awaited him upon his death. Through flattery and seduction, he convinced her to perform such a ritual. By removing his mortality, she had succeeded in making him immortal, which she immediately tested - by killing him. While he did resurrect shortly after, his memories did not, causing Ravel to realize the ritual was flawed. She then offered the amnesiac three wishes. His first is to know himself again, which Ravel grants, causing his second wish to take those awful memories away again, which she also grants. Now having forgotten the first two, he wishes to remember again. Just before granting his final wish, she tells him, "My poor, dear, lovely man-thing! Why, that was your first wish!"

So by asking her to make him immortal, he basically asked her to kill him to test the ritual to see if it worked.

He was trying to escape his death from the crimes he committed while he was alive. Some speculate he started the endless war in some way.

Three things:

One, the Nameless One never asked Ravel to kill him to test his immortality. That was her own idea, and she specifically says that he tried to stop her but she killed him anyway.

Two, there is no evidence that that the Nameless One started the Blood War. And if I remember the lore correctly, it has been going on for a long time before the Nameless One was around.

Three, we're not actually talking about the time when Ravel killed the Nameless One after granting him immorality. We're talking about how she tries to kill you after your conversation in the game.

[mikeydsc]

If you specifically asking about the last encounter, its because TNO wants to leave and Ravel wants you to stay with her there forever.

[GrimSentinel]

Originally posted by mikeydsc:

If you specifically asking about the last encounter, its because TNO wants to leave and Ravel wants you to stay with her there forever.

I'm thinking she lied about that, since she already told you that she hates to see anything caged. And in her conversation with the Transcendent One, she says that she expected to lose.

Originally posted by GrimSentinel:

In the conversation between Ravel and the Transcendent One, she says something like, "I thought dying at his hand would fulfill the requirements the past put forth." So it seems like she wanted the Nameless One to kill her, or at least think that he had. I think the reason was that she knew that the Transcendent One was going to come after her and was trying to avoid that.

[mikeydsc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex5SKz5MCso


About 15.30 onward are answers you seek.

19:15 is the answer why she killed you after the ritual - to verify the ritual worked -
If you asked her to make you immortal, of course she will kill you to make sure the ritual worked. So you did ask her to kill by way of asking her to perform it, otherwise how do you know if it worked?

[GrimSentinel]

Originally posted by mikeydsc:

19:15 is the answer why she killed you after the ritual - to verify the ritual worked -
If you asked her to make you immortal, of course she will kill you to make sure the ritual worked. So you did ask her to kill by way of asking her to perform it, otherwise how do you know if it worked?

Yeah, this just demonstrates what I already told you. "You struggled so, but I kept my grip *tight* and watched you die your first of many deaths." Obviously he didn't WANT her to kill him.

Originally posted by GrimSentinel:

One, the Nameless One never asked Ravel to kill him to test his immortality. That was her own idea, and she specifically says that he tried to stop her but she killed him anyway.

Also, I don't know why you're still going on about this, since I already explained that it's not even what the OP was even talking about.

[mikeydsc]

Originally posted by mikeydsc:

If you specifically asking about the last encounter, its because TNO wants to leave and Ravel wants you to stay with her there forever.

And this is his answer ( the OP question)

To Grim - it is why she killed him the 1st time. If TNO asks her to make him immortal... she had to test to make sure her ritual worked, if not then TNO or Ravel would not know whether it worked or not.

Any time you do an experiment, how do you verify the result?

And this was an experiment to Ravel, (my understanding is she knew how to do it, but never did it before) so she did not know the end result (his memories being lost) would be until after. (which she also explained to TNO)

This is my understanding of the whole ordeal. If it varies from yours, thats fine as there are several plot points that were never fully explained.

Here is a way to explain my reasoning.
A doctor operates on you for some reason. To test his operation, he does something after to verify it worked, and you did not ask him to do that, its just part of the process.

[GrimSentinel]

I'm not sure if you're not reading my posts or what, but I can keep reposting them easily.

Originally posted by mikeydsc:

If you
To Grim - it is why she killed him the 1st time. If TNO asks her to make him immortal... she had to test to make sure her ritual worked, if not then TNO or Ravel would not know whether it worked or not.

Any time you do an experiment, how do you verify the result?

And this was an experiment to Ravel, (my understanding is she knew how to do it, but never did it before) so she did not know the end result (his memories being lost) would be until after. (which she also explained to TNO)

Originally posted by GrimSentinel:

One, the Nameless One never asked Ravel to kill him to test his immortality. That was her own idea, and she specifically says that he tried to stop her but she killed him anyway.

Yes, it was a test. One that was Ravel's idea, not TNO's.

Originally posted by mikeydsc:

Originally posted by mikeydsc:

If you specifically asking about the last encounter, its because TNO wants to leave and Ravel wants you to stay with her there forever.

And this is his answer ( the OP question)

Originally posted by GrimSentinel:

Originally posted by mikeydsc:

If you specifically asking about the last encounter, its because TNO wants to leave and Ravel wants you to stay with her there forever.

I'm thinking she lied about that, since she already told you that she hates to see anything caged. And in her conversation with the Transcendent One, she says that she expected to lose.

Originally posted by GrimSentinel:

In the conversation between Ravel and the Transcendent One, she says something like, "I thought dying at his hand would fulfill the requirements the past put forth." So it seems like she wanted the Nameless One to kill her, or at least think that he had. I think the reason was that she knew that the Transcendent One was going to come after her and was trying to avoid that.

[mikeydsc]

OK, at 36;12 of the video Ravel gives you your answer - just like I said. She will not let him leave - she wants him there with her forever to love her like he promised her in a past life. That is why she attacked him - to make him stay.

And like I said before, its ok to have 2 different beliefs of why it is, but you seem to not grasp that 2 people can have different views from the info available. I gave you video proof of why I believe the way I do and you have offered nothing to back up your beliefs.

Have a good day.

[GrimSentinel]

Originally posted by mikeydsc:

OK, at 36;12 of the video Ravel gives you your answer - just like I said. She will not let him leave - she wants him there with her forever to love her like he promised her in a past life. That is why she attacked him - to make him stay.

And like I said before, its ok to have 2 different beliefs of why it is, but you seem to not grasp that 2 people can have different views from the info available. I gave you video proof of why I believe the way I do and you have offered nothing to back up your beliefs.

Have a good day.

You're distorting what I said. I didn't say that she didn't claim that she wanted TNO to stay with her, I'm saying that I think she was lying when she said that because it conflicts with the other things she said (about hating to see things caged, and what she later told TTO). And we know she is capable of lying, since TNO catches her trying to lie about why she was asking about changing the nature of a man.

I assumed you had already played the game and would already know about the scene I was talking about, just as I already knew about the scene you were talking about without needing a video for it. My mistake. If you need video proof to believe the scene I'm talking about is in the game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DZAIFQH4fM
Here Ravel tells TTO that her plan was to die at the hand of TNO (or at least make it seem like she had), and that she knew that TNO was powerful enough to beat her. The "why" is a bit ambiguous, but my theory is that since she knew TTO was after her, she was hoping to trick him into thinking that TNO had already killed her.

[BDtetra]

Sorry for not making it clear, I was specifically asking about the last encounter with Ravel, not the original encounter (where you don't see) that happened in the past. As I've said in the post, I was wondering if her claiming that "she wants to be with NLO forever" was actually the true reason (hence why I summarized it by calling it jealousy of the current NLO companions, since Ravel herself is trapped in the maze) to kill NLO. It kind of felt out of character so was wondering if anybody can clarify that.

[竹鼠 #127494079]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo3jslsZ1vo