Idling to Rule the Gods

Idling to Rule the Gods

rarestMeow Aug 14, 2022 @ 4:54pm
advice for boni (unused GP ratio)?
hello,

no matter how advanced I get into the game, I cannot, for the life of me, figure out the best ratios for unused GP

originally I used 20-20-65-5 (physical-mystic-battle-creating). but after unlocking RTI and leveling 'Creating' skill (currently has 40.000 perma) I figured that creating skill started to give me more overall attack and health than any other stats and boosted its boni accordingly

after aimlessly tweaking back-n-forth I currently set boni to 15-25-20-40:
https://i.postimg.cc/0N7dmJGv/20220815-023653-Idling-to-Rule-the-Gods-76348.png

- but it still a shot in the dark and I am just throwing stuff against a wall until something sticks and operate blindly =)

so, what are the right boni ratios? any recommendations? I do understand that ratios for climbing Baals (long-runs) are different from multi-reset challenges - but maybe some general guidelines and principles?
thanks!

I have checked wiki but didn't find any info, nor did I find any guided on that matter - if there is any feel free to point me at them

PS, I don't spend GPs because I plan to finish multiple multi-reset challenges later (NTC, UGC, TGSC)
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Showing 1-9 of 9 comments
Fel Aug 14, 2022 @ 5:09pm 
It kind of depends on how quickly you rebirth but unless you are doing a lot of quick rebirths (before might unlock) your best bet is to split it between the first two.

The reason being that battle and creating are stats that rapidly fall behind when you start training the later entries for physical and mystic.

I just go for 50:50:0:0 but some people min-max it a bit more, usually by putting more towards physical (since you heal pretty quickly during unleash).


You might also want to set the "keep minimum god power" to whatever you want to always use as a boost (a rule of thumb being about 10% of your total earned GP).
That way the GP button will only display what is over that amount, making it easier to track how much you can spend.
It also prevents mis-clicks that would spend those GP, especially when you disable the confirmation.
muljostpho Aug 14, 2022 @ 7:36pm 
There is the common generic advice for a 50/50 split between mystic and whatever provides you with the most attack. But actually I think (and who knows, I could be wrong) this is kinda just one of those things where it's really more a matter of feeling it out for yourself.

Originally posted by Fel:
The reason being that battle and creating are stats that rapidly fall behind when you start training the later entries for physical and mystic.

That's true before unlocking RTI. Battle would lag a couple orders of magnitude behind both physical and mystic while creating (if I recall correctly) would lag a few orders of magnitude behind battle. Unlocking RTI changes how that works out though.

(side note: I'm going to be imprecise with a lot of my notes here. I'll write down something like e100 instead of specifying that it was precisely 1.2345e100.)

Like at the moment it's been 18 hours since I rebirthed and I've got e127 physical, e128 mystic, e127 battle, and e130 creating. Attack is in e131 range. Power level is in e133 range. Max hp is in e132 range. And hp recover is in e128 range.

Oh, but the last split I arbitrarily settled on for bank bonuses is 15/50/20/15. Changing that to all 0s just to see what they're getting boosted up from... So without any bonuses they're e123 physical, e123 mystic, e122 battle, and e126 creating. That dropped attack to e126, power level to e128, max hp to e127, and hp recover to e123.

If I set it to 50/50/0/0 I end up with e128 physical, e128 mystic, e122 battle, e126 creating, e129 attack, e131 power level, e130 max hp, and e128 hp recover.

If I set it to 0/50/50/0 I end up with e123 physical, e128 mystic, e127 battle, e126 creating, e129 attack, e131 power level, e127 max hp, and e128 hp recover.

If I set it to 0/50/0/50 I end up with e123 physical, e128 mystic, e122 battle, e131 creating, e131 attack, e133 power level, e132 max hp, and e128 hp recover.

Hmmm... My 15/50/20/15 ratio that I was using actually isn't far off from the same ballpark as the 50/50 mystic/creating split. Attack, max hp, and hp recover are all in the same ranges. Recover seems weak compared to the size of the health bar though. That's like 0.01% of the bar recovered each second.

50/50 between mystic/battle is just absurd on the health front. Health won't ever seem to go down unless the enemy can land a one-shot kill. But the attack there is only around 1% of what it is for the 50/50 mystic/creating split.

The 50/50 split between physical/mystic gets the same weak attack as the one between mystic/battle. But recovery seems better balanced for the size of the health bar compared to the mystic/creating split. That's like 1% of the bar recovered each second.
sfnhltb Aug 14, 2022 @ 7:41pm 
Physical and Mystic should have all or nearly all in the early game, your stats are usually unbalanced enough that boosting the other stats will have no noticeable effect on your scores.

Once you unlock the pet multiplier boost to creation it swaps to being Mystic and Creating except for certain challenges that hamstring your divinity or ability to create things in large numbers. I typically find in this case the Mystic boost needs to be higher, often much higher, or even during unleash you can't even measurably fill your hp bar, as the final god is often a one shot kill but you have to build up enough hp to live one attack round in order to get that shot in. The more build speed, creation count and clones (for building up the DivGen more/faster) you gain over time, the larger the advantage creation ends up getting over all the other stats as the other three are strictly time restricted so always fall further behind as you progress.

Edit:
Originally posted by muljostpho:
Hmmm... My 15/50/20/15 ratio that I was using actually isn't far off from the same ballpark as the 50/50 mystic/creating split.

Well, it will probably be that the former gives you about 1/3rd of the attack and hit points of the latter as you had about 1/3rd of the boost from creating originally compared to the 50/50 split. Looking only at orders of magnitude only really will show any difference when you drop your currently useful stat boosts down to 0 or at least very low values.

A more normal comparison would be swapping a 50/50 split to a 75/25 split or something like that, where you gain a 50% increase in whatever the first stat is (75/50), at the cost of halving the second stat (25/50). A 50/50 split gives the biggest increase in both stats combined, but often one stat is more critical to what you need to succeed in killing a god or whatever than the other, so you don't always want them balanced, but the further you skew the balance the less effect it has - if you have a 98/2 split and change it to 99/1 you are getting just over a 1% or so boost in the first stat but halving the second.
Last edited by sfnhltb; Aug 14, 2022 @ 8:21pm
starwol Aug 15, 2022 @ 1:44am 
I was using 1/1/1/97 as I found during unleashes higher up that mystic was not helping as the HP was not doing a lot (couldn't kill next god). That said this was with auto fight which I now know can give odd results so maybe now I can try other ratios and get another god or so killed.

But since I'm doing TGSC right now there's basically no meaningful creating stat to run off so it's back to physical/mystic. This is where I find that there are times that with auto fight on I can't hurt Baal (despite stats being plenty) but disabling it I can defeat them no problems hence my comment earlier about auto fight and the odd results.
Hsanrb Aug 15, 2022 @ 5:59am 
If your doing GP reset, phys/mystic... shift physical to creation as you swing around baal IF you have a solid CC CS going to get it started. You can lean back into physical IF the multis align that way but I rarely see it.

Climbing runs I just do 70 mystic: 30 Creation. Theres almost 0 point in which physical or battle can generate the damage for me to climb. Maybe it'll change if I stop CC (5600 base, gets to like 8-9k if I afk, 12-15k if I do anything that calls for a bulk of creations) or halt Creation Speed (I'm at like 200k via GP... and I get almost 500% via alternative bonuses so that my Universe speed is like 3s without any bonuses.) You can spike early rebirths quickly because you can get the achievements without even blinking once the #'s get that high.

When it comes to how much GP to save, its always a % of total earned... usually between 8-15%. The more crystal power, the less you need to hold onto in theory... but you may need more to climb more.

PS: This whole discussion could theoretically change on how strong pet gear is... Can easily shift the #'s based on that 1000+% for fire/water gear.
n00bdragon Aug 15, 2022 @ 6:06am 
Originally posted by starwol:
I was using 1/1/1/97

I would echo never putting 0 in a category. Because the bonuses are additive rather than multiplicative, 1% put into a stat that is orders of magnitude below the others can have an outsize multiplier impact.
rarestMeow Aug 16, 2022 @ 11:17am 
thank you, everyone, for inputs. it was inspiring to read all your answers and from how vary they are I came to conclusion that stuff even more complicated than I thought =)

Originally posted by Hsanrb:
PS: This whole discussion could theoretically change on how strong pet gear is... Can easily shift the #'s based on that 1000+% for fire/water gear.
I currently have the following stats from gears:
HP: 705.05%
attack: 1,563.77%
mystic: 604.5%
regen: 0%
BS: 55.42%
CS: 53.65%

Originally posted by starwol:
But since I'm doing TGSC right now there's basically no meaningful creating stat to run off so it's back to physical/mystic.
exactly my experience!

Originally posted by sfnhltb:
- if you have a 98/2 split and change it to 99/1 you are getting just over a 1% or so boost in the first stat but halving the second.
oh! I didn't think about it. thank you for this clarification!

Originally posted by muljostpho:
Hmmm... My 15/50/20/15 ratio that I was using actually isn't far off from the same ballpark as the 50/50 mystic/creating split.
yes, I was using similar approach and experimented further and in my case 50/50 mystic/creating split allowed me cut one more god comparing to "more balanced" ratios. go figure =/ that's why I am so confused here

Originally posted by Fel:
You might also want to set the "keep minimum god power" to whatever you want to always use as a boost (a rule of thumb being about 10% of your total earned GP).
I know, yes, thank you for advice. for me it is easier to not block any GP usage =)

---
I am doing NTC right now and it seems that 90/10 split between battle/creating works fine
Last edited by rarestMeow; Aug 16, 2022 @ 11:23am
sfnhltb Aug 16, 2022 @ 12:20pm 
Originally posted by rarestMeow:
yes, I was using similar approach and experimented further and in my case 50/50 mystic/creating split allowed me cut one more god comparing to "more balanced" ratios. go figure =/ that's why I am so confused here

Well, for example if you look at your HP, you can get this from either Physical or Creation, the other two stats don't help at all.

For Physical you start off getting 10 HP per point of physical you have, whereas it is 5 HP per point of creating - when you unlock Might the amount of HP per point of physical increases
based on the amount of Physical HP+ you have accumulated, with 100 levels (whether real or virtual levels from CBC) making it 20 HP per point of physical, etc.

So using those ratios if you have 1e40 Physical and 1e35 Creation at some point before might is unlocked you will end up with 1.00005e41 HP once both are added together. If you had 50% of your GP into each of Physical and Creation at that point, and now change it to all be in Physical it will change to something like 2.0000000000005e41 HP (as you have gone from 50% to 100% which effectively doubles the HP you are getting from Physical), whereas if you moved it all into Creating you would end up with something like 2.1e35 HP (depending on how much CP and GP you have and how big a bonus even 1% of it adds to your stats, in the early game it might often be small enough that even with 0% boost from GP it might still be larger than Creating, and vice versa once you have built millions of universes).

So because of the above unless the relevant pairs of stats that contribute to your HP/Attack/Regen scores happen to be very close together, it will normally always be best to almost exclusively boost one of the two/three (Physical/Creating for HP, Physical/ Battle/Creating for Attack, and Mystic/Battle for HP regen), although their different levels of base boost and the effects of the first five Might trainings can impact which stat is the one that is going to contribute the bulk of each of the derived stats, and therefore are best to have all/nearly all of the saved GP boosts at that time.
muljostpho Aug 16, 2022 @ 4:31pm 
Originally posted by Hsanrb:
PS: This whole discussion could theoretically change on how strong pet gear is... Can easily shift the #'s based on that 1000+% for fire/water gear.

Someone could probably nitpick over a whole list of variables or circumstances that might affect this discussion in some way or another. Well, that's much of what this topic has been, really.

People have talked a bit about the effect of the timing within each rebirth (due to differences in game mechanics for how physical/mystic are built up, how battle is built up, and how creating is built up, plus the monuments favor certain stats over others with the differences in costs and build times). The balance shifts further away from creating when Might unlocks and you get bonuses to how physical, mystic, and battle are used but nothing for creating (aside from the standard bonus from total might, which all four of those stats get equally).

People have talked a bit about how some challenges can affect things, which is also a question of game mechanics since many challenges are built on a change to the game's rules. You're playing under different rules within the challenge and then the reward can be some sort of permanent rule change. (Like the hp regen from battle stat that was mentioned is specifically the reward for maxing the MQC. It's not a default behavior. And then it's only active when the rebirth is 15 or more minutes long so you would still only be dealing with hp regen from mystic if you're running quicker rebirths.)

People have talked about how unlocking the RTI feature can affect things. Getting a bonus from pets for the creating stat alters the game balance a lot. I suppose if you want to you could also try to affect the balance of physical, mystic, and battle if there's a big difference in how many levels you earn in their RTI boosts. It's nowhere near as freely adjustable as the GP bonuses, but it's something where a group of bonuses don't need to be equal to each other.

There's pet gear, as you mentioned. Tweaking the player's attack, hp, and mystic stats. (Regen is on...? I think it was planned for either the light or dark set of gear, right? It isn't actually implemented yet?)

This hasn't been touched on but sooner or later we're going to see a major rule change when Ryu adds the "strategy room" building to the pet village since it's going to rewrite how pet growth works (or throw a cover over the current system at least). If the plan hasn't changed from what he's posted before: Instead of the separate physical, mystic, and battle growth stats pets will only have one unified growth stat equal to the total growth they currently have. And then we'll have some way through this building to enforce a ratio of how much of each pet's growth is used to calculate their physical, mystic, and battle stats. Some things like the sauces for feedings and the options for how the growth campaign gains work would likely be removed since they wouldn't be relevant anymore. But we'll see how that all actually plays out when he adds it (will there be limits to how far these ratios can be adjusted?), but adjustable pet multis (which will be much easier to work with than trying to feed pets sauces to affect their balance) will add a whole other layer on top of adjusting the banked GP bonuses. Might let us swing the values even more drastically.

(As things stand right now with pet growth, it's easier to just let pets have balanced growth stats instead of trying to customize them to any other ratio. (I think "feed all" always functions like a mayo feeding? There's something along those lines going on.) But an argument can be made for wanting pets to have more battle growth than physical or mystic growth because a battle heavy pet trains against clones more efficiently, earning levels faster and building up higher stats faster. If all pets were battle heavy, it'd be easier to get more stats overall but pet multis would be skewed towards boosting your battle stat more than anything else.)

What else...? Crystals, maybe? If you're not leveling the modules equally and end up with different level physical / mystic / battle / creation crystals equipped you'd have unequal bonuses and could tweak the balance of your stats a bit. Not sure it'd make that much of a difference though. But... I wonder what Ryu will do with the "crystal palace" building in the pet village? The plan, as I heard it when he said some things a while ago, said something about converting spare crystals into power (something different from CP though, I'm guessing) and spending that on buffing the main stat boosts from equipped crystals. I wonder if that will be a general boost to everything or if we can choose to invest heavier in specific ones.

Spacedim has a couple of bonuses that might affect this discussion if a player is able to use them. One boosts how strong CP is (which affects how strong the GP bonuses are) and the other boosts pet stats (which affects pet multis, which could mean a lot someday if Ryu's plans for the "strategy room" in the pet village haven't changed. And if spacedim can make a difference for you then the RTI bonus for spacedim speed would also be noteworthy.
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Date Posted: Aug 14, 2022 @ 4:54pm
Posts: 9