What is considered the start of end game?

[player144]

As in title.

[sfnhltb]

For me it would be when you run out of challenges to do (excepting unlimited ones), or at least get to the point where the limited ones you have left to do don't give much benefit, so you aren't particularly planning to do them any time soon.

Basically in the end game you are just doing new challenges as they come out, or running endless challenges like UCC/OCs waiting for new challenges, or redoing day challenges after a sufficient gap, etc.

[player144]

Sounds like i'll be grey and old by then :)

[rarestMeow]

something like this, plus/minus:

>> newgame - right after tutorial

>> earlygame - all DRC done, Book is unlocked, 30 unlocked pets

>> midgame - any four of : (12000 ChP, Book is evolved, any of Secrets are unlocked, AAC done, 50m clones, 70 evolved pets, four teams, full T3 set, UBV4 done)

>> lategame - any five of : (20000 ChP, two of Secrets are evolved, UBC done, 20 UCC done, 150m clones, 85 evolved pets, five teams, RTI-147 done, Gram unlocked, full T3 sets + spares, UBV4 < 12h)

>> endgame - any seven of : (30000 ChP, three Secrets are evolved, 40+ UCC done, Overflow farm, 300m clones, 100+ evolved pets, Gram 4+, at least 30% of T4 sets, D4-4+, UBV4 < 3.5h)

so basically yes: you either did most of challenges and just do UCC/Overflow for fun, or your pets at the state when you just farm materials for better equipment and use those materials to farm more materials

Originally posted by player144:

Sounds like i'll be grey and old by then :)

welcome to the club

[muljostpho]

I didn't know that people had started throwing around a "newgame" classification in that hierarchy.

Has there been a new guidelines chart to replace the one that hasn't been updated in a year or so? Chart that sorted things into earlygame, midgame, lategame, and endgame and noted their separation specifically with ChP. Earlygame starting as soon as you're out of the "tutorial" and using something like 5k, 15k, and 25k ChP as the division lines for the others.

The extra thresholds / points of interest to make note of are a nice touch though. I'm always just awkwardly describing my level of progress as "midgame-ish". Personally got it into my head to think of having all UBCs done as a marker of entering the lategame (I'm only halfway through them) but by ChP I'm already well into what I've been thinking of as lategame according to that chart.

Some details on my progress: 18.2k ChP, 225M clones, 115 pets unlocked / 106 pets evolved, five teams working about D3-4, gearing on pets is still more T2 than anything else (some T3 stuff is made but it's not the majority of my stuff and it's typically not maxed out or gemmed or enchanted), 25/50 UBC, 0 UCC (all prerequisites are done, I just haven't felt like starting UCCs), 0 PGC, DBC score 60, RTI score 80, best UBv4 was at about 13h, for the secrets (meaning Nothing, Owl, and Fool, yes?) I have Nothing and Owl unlocked and I have Owl evolved, and I do not have Gram at all yet. Not mentioned in those definitions but I have 1.0835M light clones, about 783k in each RTI perm level, 19.959M total might, 15.499M total pet growth, and 1.161M lifetime GP gained (1.132M GP spent). And I'm at 59/86 general milestones, 55/77 pet milestones, and 7/10 challenge milestones.

Definitely still midgame by this new list but I'm 3/5 and getting kinda close on the last 2 towards meeting that definition of lategame. (Got the clones, evos, and teams. Getting close on ChP and UBv4 time.) I'm 1/7 towards that definition of endgame too, because of the evolved pets.

[rarestMeow]

Originally posted by muljostpho:

I didn't know that people had started throwing around a "newgame" classification in that hierarchy.

Originally posted by muljostpho:

Has there been a new guidelines chart to replace the one that hasn't been updated in a year or so?

no, I just came up with the list on spot. I thought that boiling everything down to ChP alone is boring and narrow. pets and dungeons are good elevations too. RTI-147 is adequate merit too. that list can be enhanced further with inclusion of Dojo, Grey-evolve, Early Spacedim. but it will make things too verbose, I think

Originally posted by muljostpho:

for the secrets (meaning Nothing, Owl, and Fool, yes?)

yeah, those guys. Fool is the hardest to evolve among three so he is reserved for endgame - you do need T4-S-20 knives and DL70+/CL300+ to beat him anyway, but the other two are doable in 15000 ChP - 20000 ChP range. Owl is more on a variety side and easier to evolve, while Nothing needs good equipment and fine EXP/h (i.e. dungeonering)

[Sancdar]

Originally posted by rarestMeow:

the other two are doable in 15000 ChP - 20000 ChP range. Nothing needs good equipment and fine EXP/h (i.e. dungeonering)

I'm at 12k ChP and about to do that one, the free t4 knife code really lowered the barrier.

[rarestMeow]

Originally posted by Sancdar:

the free t4 knife code really lowered the barrier.

oh, definitely! any special bosses with high elementals can be steamrolled with those Knives. but 12k ChP is quite low, congratulation on doing it that soon! (I was about 17k ChP I believe)

[Blacksniper]

When do you reach the endgame, according to my definition at the point where I press the uninstall button and the game is at the end ;)

Say when I've reached my goals and the game starts to freeze where it doesn't matter how many more clones I could buy because there's basically no perceived progress anymore.
It's a mystery to me why the Pet's are compared to ChP's here, because I just reached 10k ChP's today and still got Nothing and Owl and there are evolved. The book is also evolved and P. Baal 100 is beaten. However, I still don't feel that I've reached the endgame by a long shot because I still have many goals, such as finishing the UBC's, received Gram, to use the Dojo, reach 100 million clones ore more, ect.

An exact classification of when you are in which stage of the game will not be easy to do. Because everyone sets their goals differently than others. And everyone has a different understanding of endgame like me, for example, when a game has just reached the end ;)

[muljostpho]

Oh yeah, that knife...

I wonder... The examples on the wiki show the pet with 30k-38k growth and 153-138 DLs. Mine is currently at about 104k growth and DL 88. I don't have much T3 made for dungeons yet but I do have at least one each of the armor and accessory for all five elements at SSS+10 (no enchants and most not gemmed either). Or I could screw around with using the rune patch, specs, or whatever else instead of the normal gearing options. I should check how that would look if I gear it up as much as I can...

So with that T4 knife, the rune patch, and some specs the pet ends up at 5312 health, 914 attack, 437 defense, 906 speed, 172 water, 172 fire, 432 wind, 198 earth, 12792 damage potential, and 23020 survivability. Really good health compared to the examples, but attack and speed seem a bit lacking... Might actually work for the evo?

(off topic side note: I recently updated steam and some stuff changed with how it looks. Anybody else seeing it act stupid with the writing of comments now? It used to expand the size of the box a bit so you could see more of the message you were writing, but right now it's keeping the box small and only displaying two lines. And... then as my message got longer it actually shrunk the box even smaller so that only about 25% of one line was visible! What is this useless garbage?! I've moved to logging into an actual browser instead of steam's interface to be able to see what I'm writing the way I'm used to.)

[rarestMeow]

Originally posted by muljostpho:

I wonder... The examples on the wiki show the pet with 30k-38k growth and 153-138 DLs. Mine is currently at about 104k growth and DL 88.

that was my setup:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2976200814
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2976200780

- 82k Growth, 151 DL, Rune Patch with Neutral Gem 15 (because T4), Fire Gloves with Fire Gem (damage), Knives with Water Gem (hp)
required x34 turns, and x18 Health Potions

in hindsight I say that Water Gem is better been replaced with Fire Gem, I wasted too many turns on healing while could be attacking the boss and overall low damage prolong the fight needlessly

you need good DL to boost your Elements and defend yourself from Boss's confusion, mostly. Boss deals more confusion based on difference between his and your Elements. T4 Knives reduce both Defense and Elements (no more than 50%, 1% per turn). so technically your lower Elements can be offset with lowering boss's Elements via good Speed

high Growth boosts other stats. with your 104k you can go lenient with raw stats from equipment (as you see your Health is huge by itself already)

Originally posted by muljostpho:

I Might actually work for the evo?

I would say - good gems are must, you may go with less than SSS+20 but gems 13-15 greatly help in your quest. maybe even give yourself Green Gem to act thrice per turn

do you have premium items? Spectrometers count as T4 and give fine Attack and Speed. Master Gloves is T4 too and give HUGE amount of Wind Element (but lowers Fire tho) + HP and Speed. if you do then try Knives-from-code + Rune Patch + Spectrometers / Master Gloves = they all will be T4 and your gems will be more potent

the reason I am bringing premium items is because you can level them up via pet stones which is better in your case than dungeonering (plus T4 gives x4 multi for gems)

Originally posted by muljostpho:

I (off topic side note: I recently updated steam and some stuff changed with how it looks. Anybody else seeing it act stupid with the writing of comments now? It used to expand the size of the box a bit so you could see more of the message you were writing, but right now it's keeping the box small and only displaying two lines. And... then as my message got longer it actually shrunk the box even smaller so that only about 25% of one line was visible! What is this useless garbage?! I've moved to logging into an actual browser instead of steam's interface to be able to see what I'm writing the way I'm used to.)

they will replace the site to match client too at some point, so enjoy while it last. =(

but yes the new client is garbage especially new notification system

Originally posted by Blacksniper:

An exact classification of when you are in which stage of the game will not be easy to do. Because everyone sets their goals differently than others. And everyone has a different understanding of endgame like me, for example, when a game has just reached the end ;)

true! it is mostly trying to abstract trying the personal milestones than can significantly tell that you reached "the next level", like a massive breakthry comparing to stuff you had year ago

[muljostpho]

A bit after I had commented just over a month ago wondering if my Nothing's evo could be getting close I did try the fight with Nothing as I had it then and with the T4 knife, rune patch, and spectrometers equipped.. But it was defeated by the regular dungeon enemies before it even reached the special fight. Big failure.

I just gave it another try today though. Growth had gotten up to about 113k or so. DL had gotten up to 136 (actually had it squeezed into a team to level properly instead of relying on out of dungeon xp sword rates) and I threw some free xp at it to push that to 150 just to be extra certain that it was ready. Equipped those same items again. It reached the special fight and won in just 5 turns. (Kinda blew past wherever the line was and jumped into being overprepared, I guess. lol) Still had some more free xp that I could throw around so I pushed it to CL 20 to start out. Not enough that the token upgrade can be taken advantage of yet (I can do B and A rank quests, requiring CLs of 25-30) but it's a good head start.