Monuments - can anyone explain the upgrade "rebirth" stat pls

[Pimento]

I'm into ... early to midgame. Haven't made a sun yet, but i can repeatedly beat baal 4, and i'm trying to figure out what the hell the rebirth multiplier does on the damn monuments - the one listed as a fraction out of x.

For example, currently my mighty statue lists "mighty statue multi (now) x5440, (rebirth) 8, maxxed at 8.

repeat for all other monuments in some fashion. What does the 8 stand for? does it add a flat 8 to their base multiplier after rebirth? so my base monument goes up by whatever the number is (in this case, x+8 for 1 mighty statue after rebirth)

if yes, is it ever worth bothering with this? I just realized i'm wasting horriffic amounts of time worrying about maxxing out the upgrades before each rebirth, assuming i'm right.

[AzysSilverscale TTV]

it just increases your rebirth multipier for a specific stat
mighty statue for pyhsical
mystic garden for mystic
tomb of gods for battle
everlasting lighthouse for creating
and the rest increases the rebirth multi for all 4 stats

[Pimento]

Ok, that helps, but is it worth doing every single time? I don't see an enormous multiplyer - for example, it certainly isn't multiplying my base physical by 8.... at least it doesn't seem to be. rather, it seems tied into the actual statue stats.

ugh. I really want to love this game, but the exceptionally vague wording is getting really hard to put up with, guides and faq's and all.

I do thank you for your help tho JH.

[muljostpho]

I'm not clear on all the precise details either (well, more so for the numbers on the achievements than the numbers on the monument upgrades, really) but I think I have the general idea about the monument upgrades at least. Unless I've been horribly wrong in my interpretation about it since I started the game... (Someone will probably see it and correct me if I say something that's not right.)

So you know of course that there are bonuses that you build up through activity in various parts of the game which contribute to the rebirth multipliers (in the rebirth tab on the left-hand section of the screen) and those affect how big your stats will be in the next life you start. It's always been enough for me just to play the game and know that these will go up over time as I get things done without worrying about specifics that much.

I've recently been told that the values from monument upgrades actually make up the base of this, forming a sum that gets multiplied by some other rates to create the values seen in that tab, so for example I suppose that the physical rebirth multi would be derived from [(mighty statue upgrade's value + godly statue upgrade's value + pyramid of power upgrade's value + temple of god upgrade's value) x (whatever other multipliers)].

Those upgrade values go up by 0.25 per each upgrade of that type that you've built, however that is capped based on the highest god you've killed in the current run. So for example if you've got 40 levels in the mighty statue's upgrade that could be enough to contribute a 10 into that equation, however if the god you're at says that you're capped at 8 then you're only getting an 8 out of it.

But the upgrades are also tied into the actual immediate benefit of the monuments as well, and that multiplier actually does NOT have a cap. Like I'm looking at "physical multi (now) x (1 + 3120 x count)" on mighty statues at the moment. I add one level to the mighty statue's upgrade and now the mighty statue says "physical multi (now) x (1 + 3375 x count)". It is irrelevant that the upgrade happens to be 5 levels past the level required to reach the rebirth multi cap corresponding to the current highest god killed (just finished a challenge that had reset my multis so at the moment that cap is just a 5). Further upgrade levels will still increase the effectiveness of the monuments on boosting the current stats.

I think (not sure, haven't tried to verify) that I heard at some point that this multiplier is additive with the multipliers on the later monuments.... So something pretty similar to what I recently heard about the rebirth multi, actually. Meaning for example that the current physical stat should be derived as something like [(mighty statue's value + godly statue's value + pyramid of power's value + temple of god's value) x (sum of mighty statues, godly statues, pyramids of power, and temples of god) x (current physical multiplier)].

[izvon2017]

basically if you are that late you mostly concentrate on things like Temple of God and its upgrades/ since for ALL the different monuments rebirth values are summarized IE if you have mighty statue giving rb multi of X for phys, godly statue giving Y, and Temple giving Z, your total rebirth multi FROM monuments FOR physical will be that (X+Y+Z), while temple's value being significantly higher.

You total rebirth multi as far as i understand will be based on: training or fighting monsters or creating **achievments**, multiplied by whatever rebirth multi you get from monuments (monuements base value and upgrade both counts), pets.

Basically if you only want rebirth multiplier its wise to concentrate on EIther godly statue or temple of god later being significantly more efficient, building both upgrades and temples themselves.

mighty statue/garden/tomb/lighthose/just not worth it as far as rebirth multiplier goes unless you have some spare divinity you cant stick anywhere else and feel like spending a few seconds to spam a few monuments/upgrades.

hope it helps. maybe a lil messy but you should get the idea

[Hsanrb]

The gist without the complexities is that the monuments increase the base value, and the upgrades increase the multiplier.

So lets say you have 10 Mighty Statues, normally... a mighty statue is 1+ 1xcount so 10 statues is 1+(1x10) or 11... When you go back to the rebirth tab on the left, you'll have values like 1000/1500 [COMPLETELY MAKING NUMBERS UP AT THIS POINT]
If you upgrade I think it changes the numbers (I'm in UBC without upgrade tab sorry so I'll fudge it) it goes to 1+1.5xcount [or its the other side idr] so instead of it being 11... it goes to 16. On the rebirth tab if you hover physical, you have 1000/1500... and then it tells you the current physical after the monument multipliers, say 1000/1500 becomes 1600/2200 (thats roughly 1.5x)

Now the max count your looking at on the upgrades means that no matter how many upgrades you do... the maximum that will carry over into your rebirth multiplier will be (p baal v4 is 9?) so after 36 upgrades anything else is strictly for this rebirth until you kill p baal v5 (which raises it to 40.) You can still raise your physical if you do 100000000 upgrades, but only the first 36 or however many you max out carries for the next [and only the next] rebirth.

I think I got it? The numbers are weird but I'm not super into the actual numbers and just the basic contribution of things

[sfnhltb]

The rebirth part of monument upgrades and achievements are fed into the calculation of your rebirth multipliers for next rebirth (only). The amount your rebirth multipliers go up is determined by the number you are seeing on each upgrade (up to a cap depending on your P Baal killed, which is where the max comes from), the number of monuments of the appropriate type you make, and the base boost the monument gives. For each stat the numbers calculated for each monument type that boosts that stat are all added together to form the "monuments multiplier" which forms part of your rebirth multiplier calculation for each statistic.

More detailed version if interested:

If you build 100 mighty statues and 32 upgrades while defeating enough P Baals to boost your upgrade cap to 8 or more, you will have a rebirth boost from the upgrade of 8 (32*0.25 = 8). This will increase the monuments part of your rebirth multiplier for physical by 8*100*1 (the 1 is the base boost the monument in question gives to the stat, so Mystic Gardens would be 6 here instead of 1, for example, and add to your mystic rebirth multiplier this amount, i.e. 4800, if you also built 100 MGs and 32 MGUs).

This then gets multiplied by the achievements rebirth multiplier (in this case the achievements in your physical tab, all added together), your god multiplier and your statistics multiplier (capped to your god multiplier) to determine your rebirth physical multiplier (well, I think might be some other multipliers as well, like a time multiplier that is below 1 until an hour after rebirth then rises by 1% an hour if I recall).

Because all the various rebirth multipliers are multiplied together, you can consider them in isolation as to when they are worth trying to raise - so assuming you did everything else the same but only created 16 upgrades your physical multiplier after rebirth will be half what it would be creating 32. But equally if you create twice as many Mighty Statues instead, it would be back where is was (as 4*200 and 8*100 are the same, for rebirth purposes anyway - the current boost to physical you get from the two options might be different).

As others have said though, in reality it depends on which monuments/upgrades you make, as the later monuments add to all four stats (and start from much higher values), and the effects of all the monuments are added together before being applied - so once you start upgrading Godly Statues and beyond what you do with the first four monuments will often be swaped by the bonus from the later monuments and won't raise your rebirth multipliers (or indeed your current stats) noticeably, although they are a cheap way to increase your monuments built count, which is a key factor in keeping your statistic multiplier rising, as it is the only value that is used as a multiplier in determining your statistic score, everything else is additive.

In total the physical rebirth multiplier from monuments would be (remember when inserting the upgrades they are capped at 4*(P Baals defeated+4) or whatever the cap works out as):

1+1*MS*(MSU/4) + 200*GS*(GSU/4) + 400*PoP*(PoPU/4)+750*ToG*(ToGU/4)[phone]*BH*(BHU/4)

Mystic would be calculated by:

1+6*MG*(MGU/4) + 200*GS*(GSU/4) + 400*PoP*(PoPU/4)+750*ToG*(ToGU/4)[phone]*BH*(BHU/4)

And so on.

[Pimento]

Phew that's some heavy duty math. Thanks everyone. Gaah. I need a drink. :)

[Alkrios]

It is +1% every 1/2 hour past 1 hour just so you know.