Hugo...

[MadDash]

...seems to have so much trouble getting past projectile spam. What is the secret? Does his EX clap go through fireballs? I don't think it does. But other than that what other good tools does he have? Unlike other grapplers, he doesn't seem to have a good move that covers enough distance without being hit. D,D,MK is pretty bad for avoiding fireballs in that regard since the distance is so small and you have to time it perfectly or else the fireball still hits Hugo in the butt on the way down, plus the command is difficult to pull off from a standstill.

I really feel like Hugo's issues were covered back in 3rd Strike because of parry, but now he doesn't have that and focus is a poor substitute because he HAS to dash afterwards and usually that puts him in a vulnerable position for a followup fireball or attack.

[Cipher Esteria]

Don't play Hugo.
All Problems fixed.
never use him again.
So people will forgot him.
And they will never put him again into a SF Game.

[Pandama]

he has the quickest dash out of all the grapplers, abosrb fireball when dashing forward? i dont know hugo moves, but wouldnt be throwing fireballs at close range be dangerous if he uses EX lariat because of infinite armor?

[MadDash]

Originally posted by Cipher:

Don't play Hugo.
All Problems fixed.
never use him again.
So people will forgot him.
And they will never put him again into a SF Game.

If Capcom, or any company, wants people to take their product seriously as a legitimate e-sport, and want to gain fans among the casual fanbase which supplies them with most of their profit, they have a responsibility in making sure every character is balanced. That attitude that if a character initially sucks, just don't play him and move on to S tiers only is one of the main reasons fighting games never got that big.

Most people buy fighting games to play characters they find interesting. Frankly it is an embarrassment that after 25 years in existence, the SF franchise doesn't come close to something like LoL which has only existed for a few years, even though it's had plenty of time to build a loyal following. The biggest problem here is that for the casual gamer, it gets boring as ♥♥♥♥ watching nothing but Yun/Fei/Shotos duke it out all day long, using the same moves over and over. Variety breeds interest, and to have variety, the game needs to consider every character, no exceptions. Time spent on balancing should not be merely a suggestion, but mandatory.

[Midnight Meows]

All I know is that he's a pain to anti-air, and his ability to run through fireballs can be troublesome.

There has to be video footage on YouTube with the character.

[Pandama]

Originally posted by StirFriedTofu:

I hope that you know that it's impossible to make all MUs 5-5 right? This game will NEVER be completely balanced, however this is the most balanced version to date. There are just too many variables for balancing, and you can't account for them all. You buff a character to help him out in ONE match-up and you break another MU. Some characters' playstyles and design just make them naturally have extremely good and bad MUs; look at dhalsim and zangief, they have very favorable MUs and yet extremely bad MUs.

[Heroxoot]

Focus dash fireballs. If they do one too close you get a free SPD.

[Useless Bunny]

He has an attack that can absorve damage, doesn't that work against fireballs?

[MadDash]

Originally posted by Senhor Bafomé:

he has the quickest dash out of all the grapplers, abosrb fireball when dashing forward? i dont know hugo moves, but wouldnt be throwing fireballs at close range be dangerous if he uses EX lariat because of infinite armor?

Does EX Lariat have infinite armor? I thought it was only 2. Anyway, even if it does, that's still not a great option because he's taking pseudo damage along the way, and if he's low on health at that point, that damage could still kill him.

As for having a quick dash and all that, trying to absorb 2 fireballs while dashing requires a lot of precision that other grapplers don't require. Mess up and Hugo takes big damage for nothing. I also just tested the various versions of Giant Palm Breaker and none of them go through fireballs, they can only nullify one if they hit them at the perfect spot, just like Zangief's Banishing Flat, except the EX version of that move goes through fireballs completely whereas EX GPB doesn't.

When you look at other grapplers, every one of them has at least one way to avoid fireballs completely while closing the distance, which is crucial against projectile spam. Hugo has a lot of tools, but where he is lacking is dealing with zoning, and that weakness is so painfully obvious which is why he's ranked so low right now.

[MadDash]

Originally posted by Senhor Bafomé:

Originally posted by StirFriedTofu:

I hope that you know that it's impossible to make all MUs 5-5 right? This game will NEVER be completely balanced, however this is the most balanced version to date. There are just too many variables for balancing, and you can't account for them all. You buff a character to help him out in ONE match-up and you break another MU. Some characters' playstyles and design just make them naturally have extremely good and bad MUs; look at dhalsim and zangief, they have very favorable MUs and yet extremely bad MUs.

Of course, but Hugo's weakness isn't just against a particular character's playstyle, it's against the entire projectile system. Every character that has a fireball, and there are a lot, can zone the crap out of him just by throwing fireballs nonstop, and it takes so much work for Hugo just to close in, usually only to be met with a combo to the face. It makes playing against Hugo incredibly predictable for all projectile characters, which you have to admit, are probably the majority of what people use.

So if Hugo has a 1-9 or 2-8 in maybe over half of his matches... that's a pretty big problem.

[DesertOfSand]

Walking up and blocking is pretty much your best bet.

You can try to jump over them, but make sure to only use j.HP if you know it will trade, otherwise it will extend your hurtbox behind you and the fireball WILL hit you. Otherwise, use j.MP to not make your hurtbox the size of China.

Focus Dashing might work, but often will just lead yuo to eat another fireball to the face.

d.d.MK can work for faster fireballs, but with slower ones like Rose's LP Soul Spark, it's like a 1f timing to properly jump it, so it's not really worth it.

EX Lariat has unlimited armor until just before the attack comes out, but it's negative on block, throwable on reaction, and the armor doesn't last until the first active frames meaning you can be hit out of it if timed right, so it's a SUPER desperation move.

Fireballs in general are a 7-3 matchup against Hugo. Gouken and Juri especially are 8-2.

[JELIFISH]

Originally posted by StirFriedTofu:

Of course, but Hugo's weakness isn't just against a particular character's playstyle, it's against the entire projectile system. Every character that has a fireball, and there are a lot, can zone the crap out of him just by throwing fireballs nonstop, and it takes so much work for Hugo just to close in, usually only to be met with a combo to the face. It makes playing against Hugo incredibly predictable for all projectile characters, which you have to admit, are probably the majority of what people use.

So if Hugo has a 1-9 or 2-8 in maybe over half of his matches... that's a pretty big problem.

Hugo has the same problems that always plagued grapplers. I don't think Hugo is that bad. People just can't play him properly. I think you need to play like Snake Eyez to be successful with Hugo. Everyone asks how can Hugo deal with zoning and how can he get around it. But if you watch Snake Eyez' Zangief, he isn't worried about zoning or if he can get in. He's extremely patient and is always as cool as a cucumber. It's like how Hoodaman can still do well with Honda while Mike Ross has a lot of trouble because Hoodaman can play a certain way that Mike has trouble with. Hugo isn't for everyone. He doesn't have a bunch of 2-8 matchups.

[CRAZY DAVE [dennys grand slam]]

fireball zoning is his weakness by design, your best bet is patience and safe jumps. also moves that move you forward a little, like dd mk and st mp.

[Heroxoot]

He also has a hop that goes over fireballs. To be fair grapplers are weak to fireballs in general.

[Anterk]

He can jump over fireballs with his airgrab, he can clap fireballs, he has a kick that turns into a hop, he has moves with armor (heavy elbow), and a good ability to close distance on top of normal focus cancle. Hugo has more than my main (Honda), and long limbs for spacing to boot.

[MadDash]

Originally posted by Anterk:

He can jump over fireballs with his airgrab, he can clap fireballs, he has a kick that turns into a hop, he has moves with armor (heavy elbow), and a good ability to close distance on top of normal focus cancle. Hugo has more than my main (Honda), and long limbs for spacing to boot.

A lot of the stuff you said will leave him wide open or has to be timed perfectly to work. The moves that absorb hits are bad in general because a follow up hit will make all that damage count, and Hugo is pretty bad at doing reversals or getting out of pressure like most grapplers. His normals are pretty nice, I'll admit, but good normals and high damage are all he has in a game that seems to vastly favor speed over power. Don't know much about Honda, but Mike Ross did say he's one of the worst characters on the roster as well, probably for the same reason that he has no EX moves invulnerable to fireballs.

Again, I have to bring up 3rd Strike because I think Hugo was a pretty decent character in that game due to parry. I saw pros making incredible use of him in tournaments because parrying gave him openings to perform a lot of stuff that would be otherwise impossible with just blocking. And I think it was only because of the parry system compensating for his size that a giant slow character like Hugo could work in a fighting game and be competitive. Focus dash just doesn't do the same thing sadly, and it erases an entire dimension to his playstyle, forcing him to be very very defensive without a lot of options to get in fast and pressure against much of the cast. I don't know if giving him another projectile ignoring move is the answer, but it would appear he needs something.