Transit tubes bypass overload protection in transformers!

[Zefnoly]

I updated the post as the reason for my issue has been clarified. At first I thought there was a bug with transformers. But its with transit tubes.

Transit tubes bypass overload protection, even if you build them on 2000W wires protected by a 1000W transformer.

In my base I have connected all my transit tubes to a single 2000W conductive wire powered by a single 1000W transformer. Since it worked so well on other circuits without any forms of overloads happening. Because normally the overload protection works as intended.

But when I used this system for my transit tubes, it did not. Transit tubes seem to bug up the overprotection and cause overloads either way.

To save energy, resources and to avoid having heavy watt wires all over my base I built a 2000W conductive wire all around interconnecting the powering of all my transit tubes. To effeciently charge them slower by a single 1000W transformer without having to build more wires than needed and consume too much power charging them fast.

But yeah as I explained. They somehow manage to cause damage to wires even in this case. Here's a smaller simplified example of what is happening in my base.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1840474415
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1840474542

So as you see. This wire emedietly got overload damage. Despite being powered by a single 1000W transformer that technically should protect it from it.

At first I thought it was a bug with transformers. But later on I figured out they dont allow this overload to happen if wire powers other heavy machines. Only transit tubes seem to make overloads happen.

Here is an example, where I intentionally strain a conductive wire with several aquatuners running simultaniously. They seem to attempt to pull their needed wattage but it only causes spikes. That never seem to hurt the wires. And they dont. Since I built this powered by a single 1000W transformer they never manage to damage the wire. I even tried to make automation to intentionally intensify the high wattage spikes. But transformers work as intended and protects the wire from overloads.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1837949066
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1837949161

But as soon as I use transit tubes. They seem to "bypass" this protection and cease its function. Causing overloads despite the transformer claiming to protect the wire. It doesnt in that case. And I beleive this is a bug the devs overlooked when they coded the transformers to behave as batteries that consume power. Because they do have batteries inbuilt to them to power the tube transmission. I hope the devs can fix this so I dont have to make a sh*t tonn of heavy watt wires and additional transformers to fix it myself.

[Zefnoly]

If you guys stil doubt me look at this... The game obviously have simulation issues with the power. Spike of 4000W on a generator grid that can maximum provide 850W. If Im not wrong there is nothing that has shown to me that there is another buffer inside the steamturbines that would allow this. Either way. Even if thats the case. Where does the magical source of 4000W come from? It seems like the game has a few problems simulating wattage properly.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1836255072
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1836255292

[Zefnoly]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από fluxtorrent:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από dorianmode:

This 'particular maxiumum rate' is basically infinite, hence the problem. If the battery discharge rate/power flow could not exceed the rated amount then this thread wouldn't exist.

If people accepted mechanics and worked within them this thread would not exist.

If devs could properly explain their mechanics this wouldnt happen either. If they properly programmed the transformers and actually limited their output this thread wouldnt exist. But even generators can magically allow spikes far above their maximum generation so its obviously a simulation issue

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από dorianmode:

Transformers still don't match their in-game description.

And this!

[Zefnoly]

So what you all are saying... Is that transformers are basically batteries that allow infinetely high output as long there is charge like normal ingame batteries. Only difference being that they have seperate outputs and inputs to separate grids. AKA they DONT protect grids from overload unless you make sure to not build lots of stuff on a single grid. AKA I have to build a dozen more wires in my base, waste time and resources, because ingame transformers dont work they way they are supposed to, and the game doesnt have any other proper system to avoid overload.

*calp *clap

I get it... The devs made broken transformers that cant simulate properly. Giving a whole lot of people headache.

This also means generators have buffers that allow infinetely high outputs because I managed to get 4KW spike out of a single steamturbine.

[Zefnoly]

*shrugs*
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1836265800

[dorianmode]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από fluxtorrent:

More circular logic.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από fluxtorrent:

If people accepted mechanics and worked within them this thread would not exist.

If people didn't ask questions then there wouldn't be people asking questions.

<slow clap>

[fluxtorrent]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από dorianmode:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από fluxtorrent:

More circular logic.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από fluxtorrent:

If people accepted mechanics and worked within them this thread would not exist.

If people didn't ask questions then there wouldn't be people asking questions.

<slow clap>

Oh look, it can recognize it, yet somehow still does it, and can't identify parody.

[dorianmode]

Oh, but I just did it. Right there. You got applause and everything.

[Elidrin]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Zefnoly:

*shrugs*
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1836265800

Your line has a possible 4800Kw draw
You have them all on so the line wants to draw 4800 (in the tooltip this reads as 4800/4800)

You are supplying 400... so what exactly are you seeing that we are not?

[Zefnoly]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Elidrin:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Zefnoly:

*shrugs*
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1836265800

Your line has a possible 4800Kw draw
You have them all on so the line wants to draw 4800 (in the tooltip this reads as 4800/4800)

You are supplying 400... so what exactly are you seeing that we are not?

Im seeing 4800W running for 1 second before the manual gen output buffer is empty. Over time this causes damage... This type of overload damage happens pretty frequently every second cycle or so in my colony even on 2000W grids supplied by a single 1000W transformer, which by "INGAME DESCRIPTION SHOULD PROTECT CIRCUITS FROM OVERLOAD" but they dont. You cant even protect smaller ciruits by having a weak generator on it. Because the generators have buffers that can support rapid spikes of massive amounts of wattage, which cause damage over time on grids.

It seems that every generator/transformer in the game has inbuilt buffers that can support nearly limitless output until the buffers are empty. The difference is that there is a maximum draw by these buffers.

This causes the game to simulate power incorrectly in certain situations, causing wires to break when they shouldnt. Not just that but the wire breaking mechanic is dumb. And should be changed or fixed in my opinion. They should survive spikes and only take damage if they run for too long in high power. In this case they take damage after a pretty short while with these spikes on grids that shouldnt allow these spikes.

[fluxtorrent]

Nothing in the description of the transformer says "protects wires from boneheads overloading it anyway"

it's working as intended, you are just using it wrong. Being on the other side of the transformer is not a free pass to overload the wires. Isn't in real life either.

[fractalgem]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από fluxtorrent:

Nothing in the description of the transformer says "protects wires from boneheads overloading it anyway"

it's working as intended, you are just using it wrong. Being on the other side of the transformer is not a free pass to overload the wires. Isn't in real life either.

In real life we have these things called circuit breakers that switch the lines off if too much draw happens to protect the line.

The transformer in oni LOOOKS like it performs this function as well, hence the dismay at a transformer not actually protecting the downstream wire.

[fluxtorrent]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από fractalgem:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από fluxtorrent:

Nothing in the description of the transformer says "protects wires from boneheads overloading it anyway"

it's working as intended, you are just using it wrong. Being on the other side of the transformer is not a free pass to overload the wires. Isn't in real life either.

In real life we have these things called circuit breakers that switch the lines off if too much draw happens to protect the line.

The transformer in oni LOOOKS like it performs this function as well, hence the dismay at a transformer not actually protecting the downstream wire.

In real life we have transformers and they don't act as circuit breakers there either, so expecting them to do that in a game where it doesn't say they do is asinine.

edit: and even then that would just stop an overloaded line from working at all, so this setup STILL would be worthless.

[Zefnoly]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από fluxtorrent:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από fractalgem:

In real life we have these things called circuit breakers that switch the lines off if too much draw happens to protect the line.

The transformer in oni LOOOKS like it performs this function as well, hence the dismay at a transformer not actually protecting the downstream wire.

In real life we have transformers and they don't act as circuit breakers there either, so expecting them to do that in a game where it doesn't say they do is asinine.

edit: and even then that would just stop an overloaded line from working at all, so this setup STILL would be worthless.

Its a game... Which doesnt mean they cant help this in the game. And the game says "protects cricuits from overloading" in the game. Which they dont. But in my opinion. We should get power limiters or curcuit breakers. Which exist in real life. And I think it should in some way exist in the game as well. Also im fully aware of what you said, I went to electrician school so im fully aware. There are lots of things wrong with this game if you compare to real life. Like cables doesnt break when they overload. They heat up and melt. Which realistically is what caused them to break. In the game they dont heat up. In real life this is why circuits survive spikes. Which happen in many common situations. They survive them because quick spikes doesnt emedietly allow cables to melt appart. So if you try to use real life transformers to defend broken lying mechanics, lets throw out the entire system in the current game.

But again. Its a game. And its not supposed to be completely realistic. Doing so would just break the game in a dozen more ways. But the current power system is also pretty imperfect even gamephysics wise. Because it doesnt do what the game "says" it should do. It doesnt protect grids from overloading, as the devs stated in the transformer. Yes it somewhat limits power. But it doesnt limit wattage. Only the amount of power that grid receives in its buffer system or the capacitors hidden inside the transformers. Which again. Makes the transformers batteries. They are nowhere like real life transformers. Neither do they protect it from overloading as the game claims they should. So the transformers are just lies or based on broken mechanics. Or has missleading broken descriptions

In this sense. Devs should either change description to correct it. Or make so the transformer ACTUALLY do what it claim to do. Limit power sent to a grid. Right now it doesnt limit power. Not in the sense most would think it would in the game, which is wattage. It only limits input. Not output. Which kinda obsoletes it in many situations. Its like a capacitor with a seperate input that is limited. Causing broken mechanics, making it worthless to protect overloads appart from seperating grids from eachother. Which again, makes this game more bothersome. And this is not what it entirely descripes to do. It just says "protects from overloads by limiting wattage" but we now know that's not correct for the output. Only input of the transformer capacitor. Many of my friends including myself has been holding up with these kind of bothering broken ingame mechanics for really long time. But in current version of the lategame its kinda... Just annoying. That so little things have to bother my gameplay and make it less fun.

Iether I have to risk overloads, or build a radiciolous amount of these broken buffer capacitors disguised as transformers with a lying descriptions. Or let my cables break every second cycle from stupid spikes that could easily be resolved in real life with different systems. That actually do exist in real life.

If they really limited power flow to the grids. The wattage should stall in my opinion on the max output of the transformer, which would cause some machines to run slower, which is more realistic. But no it dont. Which ruines the part where this "disguised buffer capacitor" claims to protect overload on grids. Or they may just include that it only limits the input wattage and not the output.

[Zefnoly]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από fluxtorrent:

Nothing in the description of the transformer says "protects wires from boneheads overloading it anyway"

Also I guess whe have to be on that level now throwing insults... I'm trying to be polite.

[fluxtorrent]

you went to electrician school and still think it's a good idea to put more load on a wire than its rated for? I mean last I checked no country in the world certifies electricians who would do that regardless of what safety devices are employed.