Zombie Spores to actually turn Duplicants into zombies

[Shame]

I don't really know what kind of effect Zombie Spores have on duplicants, but I don't believe it actually turns them into Zombies. I think it would be cool if it did, which would make them resistant to other diseases, having to need less food and stress not being a problem with them while being zombies, but they would also attack other duplicants, spreading the infection further if not dealt with, and of course a zombified duplicant could not and would not do any errands. A zombified duplicant would count for a lost duplicant. May be they also would just passively infect air and liquids with zombie spores in place of needing to go to the bathroom?

When a Duplicant turns into a zombie, they could be set to be attacked by other duplicants, or Wrangled. When wrangled, you could throw them inside a Disease Clinic to cure them from the infection, however it would take a couple cycles, and as a result a lot of power and produce a lot of heat too, may be even requiring additional medicine to feed to the machine, unless that's a thing already. A duplicant cured from zombification would act like a normal duplicant and be counted to the colony size again.

[Tseudonym]

Publicado originalmente por Shame:

I don't really know what kind of effect Zombie Spores have on duplicants, but I don't believe it actually turns them into Zombies.

Zombie spores gives a -10 debuff to all of a dupe's stats for about 20 cycles.

Publicado originalmente por Shame:

When wrangled, you could throw them inside a Disease Clinic to cure them from the infection, however it would take a couple cycles, and as a result a lot of power and produce a lot of heat too, may be even requiring additional medicine to feed to the machine, unless that's a thing already.

Disease clinics use medicine vials, which are made in the apothecary using steel and sun bug eggs.

[ilikedingo]

Eh. Only time you get zombie spores, you probably already have the materials for cure or will soon get them, meaning it is pointless.
No support.

[Shame]

Publicado originalmente por ilikedingo:

Eh. Only time you get zombie spores, you probably already have the materials for cure or will soon get them, meaning it is pointless.
No support.

Disease needs to be made more prevalent anyway I think, otherwise eventually there is just no challenge other than temperature in this game, which as it is, is just too difficult to deal with and leaves no room for other forms of difficulty.

[Doombunny]

Publicado originalmente por Shame:

Publicado originalmente por ilikedingo:

Eh. Only time you get zombie spores, you probably already have the materials for cure or will soon get them, meaning it is pointless.
No support.

Disease needs to be made more prevalent anyway I think, otherwise eventually there is just no challenge other than temperature in this game, which as it is, is just too difficult to deal with and leaves no room for other forms of difficulty.

Temperature difficult to deal with? Have you not heard of the amazing AT/steam turbine heat deletion machine?

[Shame]

Publicado originalmente por Doombunny:

Publicado originalmente por Shame:

Disease needs to be made more prevalent anyway I think, otherwise eventually there is just no challenge other than temperature in this game, which as it is, is just too difficult to deal with and leaves no room for other forms of difficulty.

Temperature difficult to deal with? Have you not heard of the amazing AT/steam turbine heat deletion machine?

Yes, and that is precisely why it is difficult. For a veteran, it is just a matter of making sure they make it before time runs out with entropy, for players that will never have looked at any guides or wikis, it is the end of their every run.

[Doombunny]

Publicado originalmente por Shame:

Publicado originalmente por Doombunny:

Temperature difficult to deal with? Have you not heard of the amazing AT/steam turbine heat deletion machine?

Yes, and that is precisely why it is difficult. For a veteran, it is just a matter of making sure they make it before time runs out with entropy, for players that will never have looked at any guides or wikis, it is the end of their every run.

Nah, you can put it off with wheezeworts for oxygen cooling and if you have a large enough pool of pwater for your cool steam vent. Phosphorite is plentiful and people should be ranching thier plastic anyway.

[Shame]

Publicado originalmente por Doombunny:

Publicado originalmente por Shame:

Yes, and that is precisely why it is difficult. For a veteran, it is just a matter of making sure they make it before time runs out with entropy, for players that will never have looked at any guides or wikis, it is the end of their every run.

Nah, you can put it off with wheezeworts for oxygen cooling and if you have a large enough pool of pwater for your cool steam vent. Phosphorite is plentiful and people should be ranching thier plastic anyway.

All your points is made moot by the fact that none of these tactics are being employed by people who are trying to learn the game by its design, without using guides or wikis. Heat kills their colonies every time, because they are too afraid to move out farther before it is way too late, ending their run.

[Doombunny]

Shoot, i was doing pre-nerf WW cooling for all sorts of things without looking at guides and wikis. The game doesn't hold your hand, find a solution or die off and start again.

[Shame]

Publicado originalmente por Doombunny:

Shoot, i was doing pre-nerf WW cooling for all sorts of things without looking at guides and wikis. The game doesn't hold your hand, find a solution or die off and start again.

You would be in the minority of people exclaiming that it's something you would figure out instead of it being extremely vague to a point of incomprehension, because this did not happen to you, it does not seem like you can even fathom the idea, and would dismiss it as stupid player behaviour, when it's a game design flaw that ends up being the main thing to kill off a run every single time. This is why so many guides on cooling for ONI are out there, and why many of them demonstrate the same sort of obscure setup.

You can't speak for the majority's experience when you are in the minority side that had a completely different experience, it just doesn't make any sense.

[Angpaur]

Publicado originalmente por Shame:

You can't speak for the majority's experience when you are in the minority side that had a completely different experience, it just doesn't make any sense.

But this also means that you think majority of people are too stupid or too lazy to learn by themselves. Do you really think this is true?

[Shame]

Publicado originalmente por Angpaur:

Publicado originalmente por Shame:

You can't speak for the majority's experience when you are in the minority side that had a completely different experience, it just doesn't make any sense.

But this also means that you think majority of people are too stupid or too lazy to learn by themselves. Do you really think this is true?

I will just let the countless cases of players not being able to figure heat management speak for themselves, don't turn the point against the observer. I was among those people, but I gave myself up to using guides and wikis later. It isn't that people are stupid, it's that they have no experience as a reference point to figure it out. Most people will have no clue how a steam turbine works, or how it could potentially help with cooling in the game. From a common sense perspective, it's far fetched to even consider that.

And yes, there is always the option to use them, but there is a good reason people are put off by having to use guides and wikis to play a game, and that is because it distracts from the experience, inherently making it a game design flaw as a result. Good game design comes from the game letting the player know organically how to do things on a common sense basis, not some weird obscure logic that has no understood foundation when you are just trying to play the game normally.

[Angpaur]

I would rather think that most of the people who decide to buy this game knows that lots of things needs to be learnt. This is not a game for everybody. But still it was sold in more than million copies. You say countless cases and I will say you wont be able to find even 1000 if you search really hard. That is 0.1% of all copies. For sure active players are much less than a million but still looks like you are the minority and "you can't speak for the majority's experience when you are in the minority side that had a completely different experience, it just doesn't make any sense".

[Shame]

Publicado originalmente por Angpaur:

I would rather think that most of the people who decide to buy this game knows that lots of things needs to be learnt. This is not a game for everybody. But still it was sold in more than million copies. You say countless cases and I will say you wont be able to find even 1000 if you search really hard. That is 0.1% of all copies. For sure active players are much less than a million but still looks like you are the minority and "you can't speak for the majority's experience when you are in the minority side that had a completely different experience, it just doesn't make any sense".

I agree, it is not a game for everybody, most games won't be. Most people who played this game won't complain about cooling because they have went to search it up and that's good enough for them. That still doesn't justify the bad game design flaw of it not being elaborated on for the player and it being one of the only hard things to manage, and way more than others.

By "won't be able to find even a 1000", what exactly do you mean? If the hundreds of thousands of views across different guides for cooling are anything to go by, it would show that it is a problem with lack of understanding for the vast majority of players who play this game starting out. I personally had to watch a couple guides and read thoroughly on cooling using steam generators and aqua tuners together before it clicked. I'm part of the minority, just that people will simply search things up on their own, but the fact you have to do that to begin with is an inherent game flaw than needs changing. There is no way I am not in the majority on the cooling issue and that it's something most would have to search up.

Imagine having a horror game with puzzles made so obscure every time you got a new one, you would wander for an hour until you had to pause the game and look at a guide of some sort to finish it. That just screams "good game design" your way, doesn't it?

[MadCre8tor]

I wholefully agree with OP. Heat management is the main challenge.

I remember how severe food poisoning and slimelung used to be, and they completely removed the danger germs posed when they were first introduced.

Usually, I try to learn a game first, and then look up a wiki to find out about all the things I missed on my first playthrough. But with ONI, you can barely get started without taking a glance at a wiki page. The steam turbine is a perfect example of this. I adore the game for its complexity, but if it wasn't for the information provided outside the game, it would simply be a chore to note and write down the in-and-outputs of various buildings. (like the fact that the steamturbine converts 2kg of steam to water, the fact that 90% of the heat energy is deleted - erased from existance - the fact that the energy generated is proportional to the amount of heat absorbed, maxing out at 200°C...).

Funny how I built my first team turbine over a cool steam vent an then *steam not hot enough*.
Also doesn't mention that the steam turbine itself takes the remaining heat upon itself and will stop operating at 100°C, yet the overheat temperature is 2000°C. Yet none of this is mentioned in the game.

You spent resources, but most importantly time on the construction of your new system only to realize that the game is withholding cruicial information. You were set up for failure from the start.
Only reasonable thing to do is to jump back in time and start from a previous save. The time it takes to tear down what you have built, all the fuel you have burned through, the waste you have produced... unless you are already far into the game it's likely you are running on a timer. So it's just frustrating when things don't work because you couldn't know any better.

I just don't understand why stuff like this isn't at least mentioned in raw numbers.

Imagine playing a MOBA and the ability description said: "fires a projectile. Does a lot of damage to the target". Like wow, I can see that, but what about the numbers?? how does it scale? please?

edit: oh yea, duplicants turning to zombies sounds kinda dumb. But I wish all deseases in general were lethal if not taken care of.

[Angpaur]

I'm not saying that game doesn't need a tutorial or that everything is perfectly explained. There are places where game provides too vague information or just purely false one.

A tutorial guiding through first 5 cycles could be good. There isn't much you can do differently there, number of available machines is limited so most of the players will play it very similarly.
But I don't think it is a good idea to provide tutorial for almost everything that is in the game. It can skew players to play in some style instead of find own ways.

This game does a good job at giving players freedom and it should stay like this. I think it is bought by players who like challenges and experimenting in game. There are also some who probably thought this game is something else and then they struggle. And we are seeing them later complain on forums as a vocal minority.

I still think majority of the players just do well and are able to learn game mechanics fast enough to succeed and have a working well colony and they just don't come to forums and say so. But players who fail do and it can give impression that they are majority.

Regarding Zombie spores - I don't want them to be changed because I found a good use for them ;-)