When did Diver's Lungs become ULTRA rare?

[ConAnd81]

First off, haven't played for a few years, so I have not kept tabs on any change logs. But damn, I don't remember Diver's Lungs(DL) being this gosh darn rare! So ooooh boy, am I ever regretful that I decided to start an only-DL dupes base for my return to the game.

For a long while I thought they had taken the trait out of the game, but it finally showed up after rerolling one of my starting dupes for... I dunno, something stupid like 15min or more. So after a few hours of rerolling I ended up installing the DGSM-mod, so I could just switch whatever positive trait I got to DL on a dupe I otherwise wanted. Fine, I cheated a little, but I kept it reasonable, still bummed me out a little.

Then the printing pod.......... 3 irl days of rejecting all or picking Care Packages(which in retrospect I should've disabled to maximize my chances of DL) I finally got a dupe with DL, that's straight sadistic!
I was --and still am-- convinced the game 'detected' I'd cheated(I had save-edited one of my dupes as well, missed that my head researcher had Yokel) and simply withheld all the DL-dupes for some inane reason.
In the end I installed the Raincheck-mod and set the refund to 100%, so I practically could instantly 'reroll' the printing pod as many times as I wanted... still was tedious AF and I'm simply considering picking whatever dupe that I want, DL or no, and add DL to them by save-edit. But that severely conflicts with my gaming morals, on the other hand, this feels so petty by the game developers that it's making me kinda mad; so mad I'm considering cheating more than usual... and it doesn't feel like fun.

If the trait is so broken, why don't they just simply remove it?
It's clearly weighted out of oblivion in the randomizer, and isn't it nerfed as well? Pretty sure it was -50g/s when I played back whenever, not the -25g/s of today. What was the reasoning behind this? Does someone have a link to an YT-vid discussing this maybe? Havn't been able to find anything mentioning this myself.

PS. Look, I realize having an all DL base is kinda cheesy and I rarely play like that, it was just for ♥♥♥♥♥ and giggles... at least I thought so initially, I haven't been this frustrated in quite a while.

[Herr Sten]

From what i remember they changed how traits and skills are assigned to dupes. Before it was mostly random, and skills had set numbers. Now their traits are taken into account, and REALLY bad traits give a ton of positives, like hilariously high skill scores and 3 positive traits.

From this i theorize that Divers Lungs is considered the best trait, and as such shows up only alongside low skill scores and bad traits. I have no proof of this, but from what you're saying it sounds logical.

Also... do you HAVE to have dupes with divers lungs? Spending 3 days self sabotaging yourr own fun... you could spend that time developing your colony, accounting for slightly increased oxygen consumption.

[AlexMBrennan]

Well, they did add a lot of positive traits (e.g. you can now get a "free" skill as your positive trait) so the chance of getting any specific positive trait is now lower. However, I don't claim to know how they are weighted so I can't say how much lower the chance is.

which in retrospect I should've disabled to maximize my chances of DL

That it not how care packages work - you get an extra option to choose from but that extra option is always a resource and never a duplicant so the chance of rolling a good duplicant is exactly the same.

[ConAnd81]

@Herr Sten
Yeah, from what I've seen while rerolling(gone through a few iterations as mentioned), sounds about right. What's usually considered very bad traits usually result in more positive outcomes, and vice versa, but the weight on DL seems like it's totally whack.

What's so hard to understand about 'for fun'? As you said, it ended up not being fun, but that's something the developers artificially have taken out of the game that was previously there. Also, sure, I could've 'spent that time playing the game instead'... but that's what I usually do and have been doing the previous 400h I've played this game, I was just trying to spice things up a little. I usually try to avoid overly optimizing, and plenty of guide-vids back in the day(few months after release I think) hammered home that DL as the be all end all trait and you should pick it almost regardless what the other traits or interests were. I didn't buy too much into that back then, I tried it once, but was still bad at the game(still am imo, not as bad tho), so I abandoned that game pretty soon and played "normally" after that. But, regretfully, I just decided to try it out again, now that I have a few more hour under my belt.

@AlexMBrennan
Thanks for the insight, I've noticed the extra skills, and yeah, makes sense they'd dilute my chances. Still, the weighting is way too high/low on DL imo, would be better if it showed up more often, but maybe with an/some extra/equivalent negative trait instead.

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

That it not how care packages work - you get an extra option to choose from but that extra option is always a resource and never a duplicant so the chance of rolling a good duplicant is exactly the same.

Yes, but no, sometimes you get two care packages, which only gives you the choice of two dupes instead of three, hence lowering my chances.

[POWER WITHIN USER]

You can get DDL from neural vacillators, -50g/s compared to DL's -25g/s, though it's going to take 1 to 4 uses.

Given the current abundance of renewable resources that can be turned into oxygen (unless your world is barren and maybe has the geodormant trait), the duplicant trait is only meaningful for space travel in the DLC.

[ConAnd81]

Originally posted by POWER WITHIN USER:

Given the current abundance of renewable resources that can be turned into oxygen (unless your world is barren and maybe has the geodormant trait), the duplicant trait is only meaningful for space travel in the DLC.

Yeah, that's probably very true, I'm halfway to giving up on the concept. Although, by that logic, then they don't really need to be gate-keeping the trait away from players if it's not that useful anymore.

Is there perhaps a mod that removes the weighting and just returns it to true random again?

[Ekimmak]

Diver's Lungs stacked on Deep Diver's Lungs would be a pretty big cut to oxygen intake, so I can see it.

I've been trying to grab at least one of all the positive traits (save for skills, don't need those buggy things), Diver's Lungs took the longest to turn up. I don't know what Glow Stick is actually for, but it's fun to work around it.

[Herr Sten]

Why dont you just play with reduced oxygen consumption? Set it in the difficulty menu on world creation.

[ConAnd81]

Originally posted by Herr Sten:

Why dont you just play with reduced oxygen consumption? Set it in the difficulty menu on world creation.

That would be kind of an awesome alternative if it was a thing, is that a mod or is it only part of the DLC(that I don't have)?

[Strifeboy]

What the best starting dupe set up now?

[Herr Sten]

Originally posted by ConAnd81:

Originally posted by Herr Sten:

Why dont you just play with reduced oxygen consumption? Set it in the difficulty menu on world creation.

That would be kind of an awesome alternative if it was a thing, is that a mod or is it only part of the DLC(that I don't have)?

Its been a thing since forever i think. Only available on world creation, you customize the difficulty (ie the menu where you choose how difficult certain aspects of the game are). Consider playing with standard oxygen consumption when youre more experienced.

[ConAnd81]

Originally posted by Herr Sten:

Its been a thing since forever i think. Only available on world creation, you customize the difficulty (ie the menu where you choose how difficult certain aspects of the game are). Consider playing with standard oxygen consumption when youre more experienced.

No, I had checked earlier when you first mentioned it, there's no option for that. You either have a mod that you're unaware of(in which case I'd like to know which one) or you have the DLC.

[ConAnd81]

Originally posted by Strifeboy:

What the best starting dupe set up now?

I find Francis John's old advice is still pretty relevant, he might have something updated for the DLC 'n stuff, havn't checked: https://youtu.be/w3Cq013hkNo?t=8

[Herr Sten]

Originally posted by ConAnd81:

Originally posted by Herr Sten:

Its been a thing since forever i think. Only available on world creation, you customize the difficulty (ie the menu where you choose how difficult certain aspects of the game are). Consider playing with standard oxygen consumption when youre more experienced.

No, I had checked earlier when you first mentioned it, there's no option for that. You either have a mod that you're unaware of(in which case I'd like to know which one) or you have the DLC.

Just checked, and my bad. Genuinely thought oxygen consumption was one of the modifiers.

[ConAnd81]

It happens, got my hopes up there for a while as well. Someone really should make a mod for that, I can only find one that removes the need entirely... I don't need training wheels THAT big. As you suggested, a slider at map-creation going from 0g/s up to maybe 200g/s(or more, if you wanna challenge yourself)

[Herr Sten]

…do you really NEED the -25% oxygen consumed? As in, you cant survive if you dont have it?